RESURRECTION : THE EVIDENCE (+ Apostolic Martyrdom considerations)

In order to establish that a person was martyred for maintaining a particular belief, one would need to establish that the person would NOT have been killed had that person recanted his/her belief.Absent that demonstration, the force of the argument that "they died for their beliefs" loses it's power. They might have been killed for being Christians, but I don't think that the killers would have released them had they confessed that their beliefs were false (if they were indeed false). Feel free to prove me wrong, though.

It is also important to note that WT arbitrarily and baselessly excludes competing miracle hypotheses like the idea that Loki altered the texts to trick us, or that he changed the position of all the photons in mid-air that gave the IMPRESSION of water turning to wine, or that Loki made Jesus' body disappear and appeared to the disciples AS JESUS to trick them. Are these hypotheses falsified by evidence? No, they account for all of the evidence equally well and are unfalsifiable. Objectively, we can't distinguish between one miracle and another, even if we were quite certain that something miraculous occurred.

You owe me a new bullshit detector. Mine overloaded and blew up when I read this.YOU presented a dubious assertion, so it is YOUR burden to prove it. Bald assertions are not true until proven false. Of course not. The person claiming the Earth is flat has the burden of proof because s/he is the one making the claim. Likewise, YOU are claiming that the apostles were martyred. Prove your claim, or retract it. This seems to me to imply that you are not as confident as you are purporting to be about the evidence that you think you have. Perhaps you should familarize yourself with the disingenuous debate tactic of poisoning the well. Prove that they were. If it is indeed a fact, then it should be rather easy, shouldn't it? If it were so undeniable, wouldn't it be easier to simply present your proof and show us just how wrong we all are rather than to dodge requests from half a dozen posters? To continue on as you are only makes your claims more and more suspect.

Please cease claiming that this "evidence" exists, AND #$%@& PRESENT IT ALREADY!! How hard can that be if you really have this "evidence" that you continually claim to have yet refuse to identify?Tell you what, two can play at this game.I have irrefutable, undeniable evidence that the story of Jesus and his apostles is one big, elaborate hoax played upon credulous Christians by the Illuminati. I've even shown this evidence to you, so you can't deny it. If you do deny it, you're a dishonest clown, because I've already shown it to you.Sure, you'll just continue to deny it because it supports your irrational theistic faith, but everyone knows the truth. Why are you denying the obvious? The story of Jesus and his Apostles is a fake, a phony, a fabrication.Prove me wrong.

And I've yet to see you present one piece of evidence to SUPPORT your claim. All I've witnessed it repeated assertions that such evidence exists. Would you mind sharing it with us already? ...so you've repeatedly CLAIMED but have yet to demonstrate with actual evidence in the case of the apostles. ***Bullshit flag flies up in the air***Quit dodging. Present the evidence to support your claims or retract them. Claims are not true until proven false. I'm well aware of your CLAIMS. All you've done is repeat them. I'm still waiting for you to support them, and it surprises me that you've been allowed to carry on this long in flagrant violation of forum rule #4. Really? Why don't you SHOW me instead of TELLING me? Will you first please give us a reason to believe you're not just blowing smoke up our collective asses?

So you aren't going to support your claims, then, huh?Typical.

Yeah, and in just about every OTHER post, you were challenged to present evidence in SUPPORT of your claim. Yourself being the most obvious individual. Tell me, how are we supposed to believe this when you continually refuse to identify these alleged "sources"? I'm sorry, but we're not just going to take your word for it. WHAT EVIDENCE?!?!?! All you've done is CLAIM that the evidence exists! PRESENT IT, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!! Why should we bother to refute your claim when youv'e given us no reason to believe that it's factual? WT, you really need to realize the vast difference between CLAIMS and EVIDENCE -- they are not, repeat NOT the same. All you have is your own CLAIMS. Show us something else that SUPPORTS them. Which was...? So you say. Why should we believe you?

So much for Willowtree's asssertion that no one can produce evidence to refute his claims.