RESURRECTION : THE EVIDENCE (+ Apostolic Martyrdom considerations)

While WillowTree is currently mired in attempts to avoid a discussion based on evidence, I thought I'd pick an Apostle and see what I can find out about what happened to him.Before picking an Apostle I need a list of the 12 Apostles. Looking about the web I find this list:

• Simon Peter
• James
• John
• Judas Iscariot
• Andrew
• Philip
• Bartholomew
• Matthew
• Thomas
• James
• Thaddaeus
• Simon

There was an Apostle named Bartholomew? I had no idea!Some lists include Matthias who replaced Judas Iscariot.I randomly choose Thaddaeus because that's a really cool name. More accurately, according to Young's Compact Bible Dictionary, he was Judas, son of James, also called Thaddaeus. Young's has no more to say about Thaddaeus.My Britannica lists him under Saint Judas, and says there is some uncertainty concerning whether Judas is the brother or the son of James.It goes on to say, in part: I'm a little confused on the part about the Greek Orthodox Church's beliefs. Is this passage saying they believe Judas/Thaddaeus was actually two different people?The apocrypha source about the mission of Simon and Jude in Persia is contradicted by other legends (mentioned widely on the web, e.g., Early Church Missionaries) that Simon's missionary work was actually in Egypt with Mark.Summing up, the evidence for martyrdom of Thaddaeus is legends recounted in later apocrypha.--Percy[text=wheat][Fix syntactic gumbo in next to last para. --Percy][/text][This message has been edited by Percy, 03-18-2004]

Tell you what. I'll respond to your checkmate evidence when you respond to my bingo evidence. I'll follow your lead and require that you do this without ever seeing the bingo evidence presented.--Percy

In the world of WillowTree this might be called an "unverifiable historic FACT", but for historians facts are made of sterner stuff.--Percy

I thought I understood the discussion until I got to this: I *think* you're just trying to reinforce this viewpoint:

• Wednesday: 1st day on which Jesus is dead, since he dies before sundown. This is what you claim is meant by the 1st day. You don't believe the 1st day is the 1st 24 hour period during which he is dead. After sundown it is the next day, Thursday.
• Thursday: 2nd day on which Jesus is dead.
• Friday: 3rd day on which Jesus is dead. According to scripture, he rises.

Naturally it can't have been 72 hours that he was dead, since that would have Jesus rising on Saturday afternoon, which you actually say at one point. Do I have all this right?Anyway, I can't see how the period between two consecutive sundowns could include anything but a single nightime period and a single daytime period.--Percy

This is a useful question if you're looking for references and more background information on context and perspectives of the opposing view, but then you follow a few lines later with this: This lends the impression that you intend to line your experts up alongside opposing experts, then reduce the discussion to simply arguing that your experts are best, and in the case of Dr. Scott, infallible even, a quality not often associated with the human condition. He must truly be blessed with God's grace. But this approach involves the fallacy of appeal to authority. I hope the issues get argued on their merits. Brian's posts appear to be providing chapter and verse from scripture, plus pointing out contradictions in Scott's position. For example Scott has Jesus born in 2 BC, but as Brian has pointed out, Herod was already dead in 2 BC. This is only a further expression of your personal skepticism, not a rebuttal. And one need only go to your next paragraph to find when a day is not a 24 hour period: Not only are such strict interpretations ridiculously Talmudic, but obviously here by day you mean only the daylight hours portion of a day.--Percy

--Percy