Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 66 (9078 total)
110 online now:
Tangle (1 member, 109 visitors)
Newest Member: harveyspecter
Post Volume: Total: 895,159 Year: 6,271/6,534 Month: 464/650 Week: 2/232 Day: 2/28 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   COVID vaccine works - we're saved!
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7416
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 526 of 535 (895901)
07-24-2022 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 525 by Tanypteryx
07-24-2022 10:16 AM


Re: Yes, Porky, the vaccine saves lives.
He is an idiot.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 525 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-24-2022 10:16 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 777
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 527 of 535 (895905)
07-24-2022 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 524 by Percy
07-24-2022 9:58 AM


Re: Covid vax does not work - You are not saved
Percy writes:
When Biden stated last year that getting vaccinated meant you can't get covid he was wrong. What he should have said is that it greatly reduces your likelihood of getting covid, and if you do get it it reduces the likelihood of hospitalization and death.
I remember this press event and during one part he correctly said that it didn't stop you from getting covid but would reduce the severity. In the other part of the press event he did indeed say the above. I just don't remember the order in which the two things were said. It was an off the cuff remark and he just misspoke but Porky and his ilk won't let it go.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 524 by Percy, posted 07-24-2022 9:58 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 178
From: Australia
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 528 of 535 (896122)
07-31-2022 11:27 PM


Horay the vaccines work. We're saved
Many people were fooled and very few can admit it
They said it would provide immunity and it doesn't. One must be living in a delusional fantasy land to deny that.
And no your not safe, thats why your still social distancing and worrying and wearing masks all afraid. Hell i even read people on here are holding their breath when walking past people... Really... HOLDING YOUR BREATH... And you think your saved... Thats beyond paranoid, its mentally ill.
Hypochondria is a mental illness people... Get a grip
So i will repeat the facts...
They said it would give immunity...
They were wrong...
Now it begs the question... Why were they wrong??? Was it incompetence or malfeasance?
Well Dr Birx can answer that quite clearly. Trigger warning this fact will rattle some peoples cages
Follow the science they say...
The science of misguided hope
It was all a big fat lie
Meanwhile this is what all the fuss is about
Nothing

Replies to this message:
 Message 529 by Tangle, posted 08-01-2022 4:24 AM Porkncheese has not replied
 Message 530 by Percy, posted 08-01-2022 9:09 AM Porkncheese has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8579
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 529 of 535 (896124)
08-01-2022 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 528 by Porkncheese
07-31-2022 11:27 PM


Re: Horay the vaccines work. We're saved
PorkiePie writes:
So i will repeat the facts...
You'll repeat your disinformation
They said it would give immunity...
It does
They were wrong...
They were right.
Go away troll, you're boring us.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by Porkncheese, posted 07-31-2022 11:27 PM Porkncheese has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20969
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 530 of 535 (896126)
08-01-2022 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 528 by Porkncheese
07-31-2022 11:27 PM


Re: Horay the vaccines work. We're saved
People actually responded to what you previously said. You ignored them and made your arguments again.
If you look at the top right of this page you'll see where it says, "Understanding through Discussion." If you're not interested in discussion, a back and forth where you reply to what people say and they reply to you, then you shouldn't be here.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 528 by Porkncheese, posted 07-31-2022 11:27 PM Porkncheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 531 by Porkncheese, posted 08-08-2022 6:14 AM Percy has replied

  
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 178
From: Australia
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 531 of 535 (896406)
08-08-2022 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 530 by Percy
08-01-2022 9:09 AM


Re: Horay the vaccines work. We're saved
A discussion with people who are rude, inhumane, delusional and mentally ill is worthless.
So i just drop the facts.
Fact - They said it would give you immunity
Fact - They were wrong
Face this fact first and maybe then i'll respond to your fallacious arguments
A discussion with someone who cannot acknowledge this fact is useless
Australia is a great example...
Its government and MSM claim to have 95% of its citizens double vaxed...
So lets see now...
Have the injections stop the spread of covid... No
Then they changed the goal posts and said it would reduced hospitalizations and death
Well, did it...
Not at all... Its actually just got worse
And if the data isn't enough here is another vaccinated leader who still got covid
But hey don't mind the facts. Continue in your fantasy land...
Yeeiii it works, we're saved while we wear masks and hold our breath...
Thats hilarious. You seriously hold your breath man your so afraid, yet you try to claim that Trumps needles are so great
And i know how much yall love the orange man... Hehehe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by Percy, posted 08-01-2022 9:09 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 532 by Percy, posted 08-08-2022 9:14 AM Porkncheese has not replied
 Message 533 by Theodoric, posted 08-08-2022 9:19 AM Porkncheese has not replied
 Message 534 by ringo, posted 08-08-2022 12:27 PM Porkncheese has not replied
 Message 535 by Taq, posted 08-12-2022 3:17 PM Porkncheese has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20969
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 532 of 535 (896407)
08-08-2022 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 531 by Porkncheese
08-08-2022 6:14 AM


Re: Horay the vaccines work. We're saved
Porkncheese writes:
A discussion with people who are rude, inhumane, delusional and mentally ill is worthless.
You're acting just like a Republican here in the states. If you ever want to know what a Republican is up to, just listen to what he's accusing other people of doing.
So i just drop the facts.
Okay, let's see if you do.
Fact - They said it would give you immunity
It's a fact that vaccines provide immunity, but as I already explained and that you ignored, immunity doesn't mean what you think it means. Immunity does not mean, "If I take the covid vaccine, the virus cannot infect me." It's unfortunate we've chosen the word immunity because it does connote certainty of protection. Unfortunately it's the word we're stuck with now, but better words might be protection or safeguard.
You may have heard the term "effectiveness" used in regard to the vaccines, usually measured as a percentage. The Pfizer and Moderna covid vaccines were judged around 90% effective against the initial covid variant. No vaccine is ever 100% effective. The flu vaccines made available every winter are usually around 60% to 70% effective, so most people already understand that immunity isn't 100%.
It's important to understand that vaccines in no way resemble force fields preventing virus from reaching your body. It doesn't encase your sinuses and lungs in barriers that keeps it at bay. All vaccines do is prep the immune system so that it's already prepared to fight off the virus should you come in contact with it, most commonly by breathing it in to the sinuses and/or lungs. Whether your immune system succeeds in fighting off the virus depends upon how well your body's immune system responded to the vaccine, and how large the initial viral load you were exposed to was relative to how strong a defense your immune system has mustered.
It's also important to understand that the immune system cannot fight off the virus until the virus infects you. Until the virus infects you the immune system cannot detect the virus and fight it off.
There's also the changing variants. We went from the original virus to the delta variant to the omicron variants, and then the omicron subvariant BA.5. We're still using the vaccines developed for the original virus. They're less effective against delta, even less effective against omicron, and barely effective at all against BA.5, as measured by preventing infection. They still significantly diminish the odds of hospitalization and death.
Here's a map of the US by county. The more red the county, the higher the case rate. Red tends to correlate with areas of low rates of vaccination. This is from three weeks ago, but todays graph is very similar:
Health departments around the world have received a great deal of criticism for how poorly they communicated about the virus. What our own CDC said regarding masks at the outset of the pandemic, incredibly including Fauci himself, is that only those sick needed masks, and N-95 quality masks were unnecessary.
On the former he was just obviously wrong and I have no idea why he would say something so stupid. Obviously a mask is just as effective at preventing virus in the air from entering as it is at preventing exhaled virus from leaving.
On the latter, he said we didn't need N-95 masks not because they're high effectiveness didn't make a difference, but because there was a shortage and he wanted to preserve them for health professionals. I think people were in general agreement that health professionals should get priority for the high quality masks, but telling obvious lies works against the trust that is so important in dealing with a pandemic.
Fact - They were wrong
The only fact I see here is you exhibiting unawareness of a lot of information, and since it was information that was already provided to you in an earlier message, you're either pretending that you're unaware, or you're just determinedly unaware.
Face this fact first and maybe then i'll respond to your fallacious arguments
You're misusing the word immunity, and so it is your objections that are fallacious.
A discussion with someone who cannot acknowledge this fact is useless
So far you haven't said anything that is an actual fact.
Australia is a great example...
Its government and MSM claim to have 95% of its citizens double vaxed...
So lets see now...

Have the injections stop the spread of covid... No
The dominant strain in Australia is BA.5, against which the vaccines are least effective. A new vaccine specific to BA.5 is currently under development and might be ready as early as late September.
Then they changed the goal posts and said it would reduced hospitalizations and death
Well, did it...
You're ignoring that Australia (and New Zealand) cut itself off from the outside world and kept covid out of the general population for nearly a couple years. Now that covid is present in the population hospitalizations and deaths from covid can only increase.
And if the data isn't enough here is another vaccinated leader who still got covid
Again, immunity is the wrong word. Vaccines provide protection, not immunity. Immunity is just the word that we happen to use. It doesn't describe what vaccines actually do, but it's the word we're stuck with. People are just going to have to understand what immunity means in a vaccine context. It's a probability kind of thing where the probability of infection is never 0%.
But hey don't mind the facts. Continue in your fantasy land...
You're only provided misinformation, and we're not paying it much mind.
Yeeiii it works,...
Yes, the vaccine works. It provided around 90% protection against the original virus, around 75% for delta, around 60% for Omicron, and maybe 30% for BA.5. Naturally hospitalization and death are increasingly likely for the vaccinated as you go from the original to delta to omicron to BA.5.
And the vaccines are not forever. They have a lifetime. After about 3 months the protection they provide begins to wane, and after about 6 months it is much diminished and you need a booster. Many people don't understand this, thinking, "I got the shot back in April of 2021, why should I ever need another?"
...we're saved while we wear masks and hold our breath...
Thats hilarious.
Holding your breath is an effective preventative against inhaling potentially virus laden air, such as you might encounter while passing through the dining room of a crowded restaurant.
You seriously hold your breath man your so afraid,...
Awareness of risks and taking reasonable cautions is just being prudent. I'm in a vulnerable age group. You're probably unaware, but the vaccines are still reducing hospitalization and death for all age groups but one, the oldest age group. That group seems to be nearly as vulnerable to hospitalization and death as the unvaccinated.
...yet you try to claim that Trumps needles are so great
Only Trump would describe the vaccines this way. He deserves credit for making money available for vaccine development, and for pre-purchasing a large number of doses.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by Porkncheese, posted 08-08-2022 6:14 AM Porkncheese has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7416
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 533 of 535 (896408)
08-08-2022 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 531 by Porkncheese
08-08-2022 6:14 AM


Troll alert
Troll

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by Porkncheese, posted 08-08-2022 6:14 AM Porkncheese has not replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19752
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(4)
Message 534 of 535 (896416)
08-08-2022 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 531 by Porkncheese
08-08-2022 6:14 AM


Re: Horay the vaccines work. We're saved
Porkncheese writes:
Fact - They said it would give you immunity
If you're listening to people who guaranteed that the vaccines would be 100% effective, the fault is in your lack of skepticism, not in the vaccines.
The actual fact is that vaccines HELP your immune system to fight diseases by giving them a head start - "This is what your enemy looks like. Figure out how to fight him NOW, before he actually shows up in force."
Sometimes they lose the fight.
Porkncheese writes:
A discussion with someone who cannot acknowledge this fact is useless
Well, a discussion with an idiot vaccine-denier might be useless - but I learned how to express WHY you are wrong (see above), so it was useful to me.

Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote.

Edited by ringo, : Missspellled 'lose'.


"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by Porkncheese, posted 08-08-2022 6:14 AM Porkncheese has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8525
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 535 of 535 (896523)
08-12-2022 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 531 by Porkncheese
08-08-2022 6:14 AM


Re: Horay the vaccines work. We're saved
Porkncheese writes:
A discussion with people who are rude, inhumane, delusional and mentally ill is worthless.
So i just drop the facts.

Fact - They said it would give you immunity
Fact - They were wrong
Porkncheese logic.
Experts say that seatbelts will prevent injury and death in car accidents. People still die in car accidents while wearing seatbelts. Therefore, the experts are wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by Porkncheese, posted 08-08-2022 6:14 AM Porkncheese has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022