|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,927 Year: 4,184/9,624 Month: 1,055/974 Week: 14/368 Day: 14/11 Hour: 2/1 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Catholics are making it up. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Tangle writes:
I'm not suggesting that you should be "deferential", just less rabid. The Catholic church's often bad actions and ideas influence the lives of billions of people and need to be discussed in less deferential terms than seems to be happening at the moment. You're stuck in the past, like Faith. Today's Catholic Church is barely on the radar of dangerous religious groups.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
You're losing the plot. We've been talking about your statement in Message 264:
Global child rape. Institutional cover-up. Homophobia. Discrimination against women. Increasing the spread of HIV in Africa by campaigning against condom use.....quote:My point is that no, we shouldn't take seriously their ideas on how families should behave. If African families take them seriously and spread HIV as a result, that's a different issue. "We" are not Africans. "We" can not solve African problems by blathering on the Internet.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
No. Best to stop whining about it on the Internet and do something tangible.
Right, Africa's not your problem. Best to shut up and just hope it goes away. Tangle writes:
There probably are plumbers who rape children - but it isn't something that they learn in plumbing school and it isn't something that the plumbers' union recommends. It makes no sense to blame plumbing for everything the plumbers do.
However, child rape and cover up is on your doorstep; not interested in that either?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Wrong again. Whining is only half of the purpose of this site. The other half is telling whiners how silly they're being, whether they're whining about science being wrong or something else.
Need I remind you that 'whining' is the entire and total purpose of this site. Tangle writes:
You could probably make your case better without the hyperbole.
And it's proven to be the case that a large number of Catholic clerics of all ranks have systematically raped children and that the organisation that feels it is pious enough to tell the world how to behave has covered it up.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
To recap: a few bad apples in the Catholic Church does not translate into a systemic problem in the Catholic Church.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
You have that backwards. We don't believe miracles are possible because none of them has ever been substantiated.
If you don't believe ANY miracles are possible, then naturally you are going to deny any claimed by the Catholic Church.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
It doesn't much matter who is doing the investigating. The rules of what constitutes a genuine miracle are still made up by the Catholic Church, aren't they? If you tell me to give you a number between 1 and 10, I can't say 49, can I?, even if it's the right answer.
Miracles aren't declared as authenitic until every other possible explanation has been considered and thoroughly investigated by professional experts (many of whom are not Catholics or even religious - they are often atheists). Dredge writes:
I don't refuse to believe in miracles. I don't refuse to believe in Bigfoot or unicorns or leprechauns either. But if you refuse point blank to believe in miracles, no amount of evidence will ever be enough. Do you "refuse" to believe in unicorns?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It can be frustrating to find out that you're wrong. You can try to end the frustration by nailing down your Caps Lock key. Or you can just stop being wrong.
These types of arguments frustrate me.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If only you can sense it and many of us can't, that suggests that what you're sensing isn't real - i.e. it isn't something outside your head.
You can't know what I have sensed. Phat writes:
It certainly can be wrong. If you believe in a young earth, you're wrong. If you believe in Noah's Flood, you're wrong. ... belief is strongly subjective. Not "wrong". If you believe in Bigfoot or unicorns or leprechauns, you might not be wrong - but you shouldn't act as if they were real. If the leprechaun tells you to burn things, you shouldn't do it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
1 Timothy writes:
I like that phrase.
having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 1 Timothy writes:
Interesting juxtaposition there. As far as I know, the Catholic Church doesn't command people to abstain from meats - but you claim that God did until Noah. Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats...."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
I've asked that same question and got no answer.
...how do we explain Abel's burnt offerings to YHWH (AKA "God")? Yes, he got wool and possibly milk and other dairy products from his sheep, but why then kill them to make burnt offerings? dwise1 writes:
That would make more sense; God gave Adam and Eve animal skins to replace their fig leaves.
However, the earlier story was that meat eating started with The Fall; "Carpe" looks like the English "carp" which is a fish. Therefore "carpe diem" must mean "fish day", which every Catholic knows is Friday.
It would be funnier (though even worse linguistically) if it was "sieze the fish"."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Well, of course fish is meat in the Biblical context - e.g. shedding of blood. That passage is understood to refer to Catholic practices so abstaining from meats is understood to refer to abstention on Fridays, when fish is eaten instead.quote:Fish got blood. "I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Faith writes:
I wasn't sure if i had had the discussion with you specifically so I didn't accuse you of saying it - but some literalist nutbars claim that the passage in Genesis was God giving Noah permission for the first time to eat meat. Cain and Abel were after the Fall, so what's the problem with the burnt offering Abel gave? Offerings were needed for sin, sin followed the Fall. You literalist nutbars have a problem conflating the Adam and Eve story with the Cain and Abel story and the Noah story. They're different stories. They don't need to agree in every detail. Trying to shoehorn all of them into agreement is what makes your theology so stupid."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
frako writes:
You can't eat crustaceans at all. That would be like wearing a cotton-polyester shirt, strictly taboo. The same would apply to insects, including the four-legged ones, unless they have cloven hooves and chew their cud. I'm not sure where octopuses fit in in Judaic taxonomy. So on Fridays we can only eat veggies, and octopuses, crustaceans and insects ."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
The problem is that you can't seem to get your story straight.
That DOES look like the first time God told people to eat meat, what's the problem with that? Faith writes:
Why would we not? Eating the meat would be less objectionable than wasting the meat.
Do we have to assume that Abel ate the sacrifice he made? Faith writes:
It also doesn't say that the "vegetarian rule" was a rule. God said they could eat this. He didn't say they couldn't eat that.
It doesn't say one way or the other, so if they were still under the vegetarian rule of Genesis 1:whatever it was, then he wouldn't have eaten the sacrifice. Faith writes:
It's the conclusions you draw that are stupid. Imagine the stupid conclusions if you tried to fit The Grapes of Wrath and The Lord of the Rings together.
And what's stupid about fitting all the parts of the Bible together anyway? Faith writes:
And since the stories don't fit together, we can conclude that it is not God's work. God, if He existed, would not need you to try to stitch His stories together. Isn't that what one would expect if it's God's work?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024