|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,908 Year: 4,165/9,624 Month: 1,036/974 Week: 363/286 Day: 6/13 Hour: 1/2 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Catholics are making it up. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
|
Ringo writes: Millions of people vote for conservatives. That has much more serious consequences and I take it much more seriously. I take global warming and ISIS more seriously, but that's not to say that I can't also have concerns for other things. The Catholic church's often bad actions and ideas influence the lives of billions of people and need to be discussed in less deferential terms than seems to be happening at the moment.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The Catholic church's often bad actions and ideas influence the lives of billions of people and need to be discussed in less deferential terms than seems to be happening at the moment. I agree but of course I agree from the point of view of a Protestant and you think we're as crazy as the RCC, which is frustrating though understandable. It was the Protestant Reformers, though, who finally saw through them, their completely nonChristian doctrines and practices, which were taken mostly from the Roman Empire's pagan religions and mixed with a few Christian concepts. Others had reacted against all this but they'd been oppressed and murdered by the RCC. The great crime according to the RCC was reading the Bible in those days, because it so clearly showed how their religion had nothing to do with Christinity. Their world political ambitions were shown already in their lording it over kings and emperors in the Middle Ages, which is far from Christ's kingdom which is "not of this world." They haven't lost that ambition, though the Reformation set them back pretty severely. In more recent times it hasn't always been Protestants who have exposed the Vatican's real nature, though you will find that Protestant websites often present studies that originate with others. There have been Catholics as well who have exposed much of it. Malachi Martin is one. But here's a nonChristian expose you might be interested in. Or not. He's Jewish and he's written many books exposing the RCC's role in world politics.
Vatican manipulation of the Vietnam War The Roman Church is a much bigger influence in the world than most of us suspect. ABE: I think I probably answered the wrong post here. I had the one --Message 267 --in mind where you mention papal interference in the US:
Pope Francis electrifies Congress with speech laying out bold vision for US What business does the Pope have telling us anything? Well, RCC doctrine does claim the Pope is the rightful ruler of the world. I'm still looking for the most relevant quote on that. I think it must have come from Gregory VII, or Hildebrand, who seems to have been the Pope who most extended the political power of the Popes. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I read up a bit on the miracle of the gulls. There's a monument to that supposed miracle somewhere -- reading too fast, missed it but probably Salt Lake City?
I do believe God does occasionally give miracles, but since I think Mormon doctrine is false I can't believe He favored the Mormons with a miracle. He might have I suppose, out of sheer mercy nevertheless, but no, I take that back: I don't think He would do that because it would give credence to the false doctrine, and too many are confused by all the weird false versions of Christianity these days. For the same reason He isn't giving the RCC any miracles either, it's all bogus or demonic. The web discussions try to debunk the miracle idea. But I think there's a simple explanation. Oddly enough there are seagulls out here in the desert west, even around Las Vegas and Reno, and apparently lots of them around the Salt Lake, according to the websites I looked at. So the appearance of gulls wouldn't have been miraculous in itself. Perhaps they were more numerous that year. Also there is a phenomenon out here known as the periodic visit of the "Mormon crickets" even here in Nevada. From what I just read they are actually katydids. Anyway they show up in huge numbers from time to time years apart. Best guess is they came in huge numbers in 1848 and the native gulls had at them. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Faith writes: I agree but of course I agree from the point of view of a Protestant and you think we're as crazy as the RCC, Well no, I don't lump all religious beliefs together and call them equally crazy. Some are decidedly less crazy than others. Your kind of Protestantism is actually crazier than the RCC - the RCC at least have the sense not to insist on stuff being correct that is demonstrably and factually wrong and/or have bigotted and prejudicial views which would do great harm to our society if we let you. Other forms of Protestantism is almost benign, Quakers seem quite sane and Anglicanism might yet reform itself in a sensible fashion.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2727 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined:
|
Hi, Faith.
I think there's an even simpler explanation. 1848 was the Mormons' first year in Utah (they had arrived in the previous autumn), so they had no experience with the local ecology, and didn't know what to expect when they planted their first crops. The bottom line to me is that at some point, somebody pointed out how gulls eat crickets, and then the story escalated over a couple of decades until it took on mythological proportions. I believe this is the reason why the miracles of the past seem so much more miraculous than alleged modern-day miracles. God used to throw fireballs from the sky on cue, instantly vanquish diseases with a word or a touch, and turn water into wine before the end of the party. Anymore, it seems like all God does is stealthily make people gradually recover from diseases while under the care of vigilant medical professionals, let them walk away from car accidents with just a few bruises and scrapes, or arrange for a friend to remember to pay back some money owed around the time when their creditor is in a minor budget crisis. The general quality of miracles seems to bear an inverse relationship with the passage of time. Furthermore, the quality of a specific miracle also seems to bear the same inverse relationship with the passage of time, just like "fish stories." I feel like these two things are probably related.-Blue Jay, Ph.D.* *Yeah, it's real Darwin loves you.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Tangle writes:
I'm not suggesting that you should be "deferential", just less rabid. The Catholic church's often bad actions and ideas influence the lives of billions of people and need to be discussed in less deferential terms than seems to be happening at the moment. You're stuck in the past, like Faith. Today's Catholic Church is barely on the radar of dangerous religious groups.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
ringo writes: Today's Catholic Church is barely on the radar of dangerous religious groups. Do religions need to be flying planes into tall buildings these days to merit discussion and condemnation? Global child rape. Institutional cover-up. Homophobia. Discrimination against women. Increasing the spread of HIV in Africa by campaigning against condom use.....Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
You're losing the plot. We've been talking about your statement in Message 264:
Global child rape. Institutional cover-up. Homophobia. Discrimination against women. Increasing the spread of HIV in Africa by campaigning against condom use.....quote:My point is that no, we shouldn't take seriously their ideas on how families should behave. If African families take them seriously and spread HIV as a result, that's a different issue. "We" are not Africans. "We" can not solve African problems by blathering on the Internet.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
ringo writes:
My point is that no, we shouldn't take seriously their ideas on how families should behave. Well you're not going to get me to disagree with that. That's kindof my point
If African families take them seriously and spread HIV as a result, that's a different issue. "We" are not Africans. "We" can not solve African problems by blathering Right, Africa's not your problem. Best to shut up and just hope it goes away. Not happening here, best not talk about it. However, child rape and cover up is on your doorstep; not interested in that either? Not a problem just invite the boss over anyway.
Pope Francis became the first pontiff to address the United States Congress on Thursday. [...] After the speech, members of Congress from both sides of the aisle lauded the pope's speech, with many praising his message of compassion for society's most vulnerable. Now that's not to say that this isn't a reforming pope with his heart in the right place - he actually seems like a decent guy trying to do some decent things. But he's still proclaiming saints in a mediaeval manner and he's not going to overturn anything important just yet. And, by the way, this thread is about Catholics making it up - and they just made up two more saints and published it to the world in order to publicise their conclave. It's news and it's barking mad. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
No. Best to stop whining about it on the Internet and do something tangible.
Right, Africa's not your problem. Best to shut up and just hope it goes away. Tangle writes:
There probably are plumbers who rape children - but it isn't something that they learn in plumbing school and it isn't something that the plumbers' union recommends. It makes no sense to blame plumbing for everything the plumbers do.
However, child rape and cover up is on your doorstep; not interested in that either?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
ringo writes: No. Best to stop whining about it on the Internet and do something tangible. Need I remind you that 'whining' is the entire and total purpose of this site. If you don't like people talking about the rights and wrongs of religion, you're in the wrong place.
There probably are plumbers who rape children Yeh, for sure. However, this is a site where we talk about religion not plumbing. And it's proven to be the case that a large number of Catholic clerics of all ranks have systematically raped children and that the organisation that feels it is pious enough to tell the world how to behave has covered it up. The world plumbers union is not putting itself forward as a model of global moral leadership and so far has not been found guilty of global scale criminal activity. Maybe there's no sensible comparison between them?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Wrong again. Whining is only half of the purpose of this site. The other half is telling whiners how silly they're being, whether they're whining about science being wrong or something else.
Need I remind you that 'whining' is the entire and total purpose of this site. Tangle writes:
You could probably make your case better without the hyperbole.
And it's proven to be the case that a large number of Catholic clerics of all ranks have systematically raped children and that the organisation that feels it is pious enough to tell the world how to behave has covered it up.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
^^^ righto, you've got to point of arguing for the sake of it and deliberately missing the point faster than usual, so I'll leave it there for the moment.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
To recap: a few bad apples in the Catholic Church does not translate into a systemic problem in the Catholic Church.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9516 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Woops
The Vatican says it has arrested two people, a high-ranking priest and a former employee, on suspicion of leaking confidential documents. They were members of a commission set up by Pope Francis to help reform Church finances. Officials believe they passed records of its discussions to journalists investigating Vatican corruption. The documents form the basis of two new books on the controversial state of the Vatican's finances. Vatican leaks: Two arrested in new scandal - BBC News It looks like a little more of the financial corruption at the heart of the Vatican is going to scupper pope F's attempt to spin the outcome of the Family synod. I do feel sorry for this chap - he seems a genuinely a decent bloke.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm. |
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024