REMIX: Who Can Be Saved?

At best we can be eternally skeptical of any and all witness evidence.What makes us think that all of it is invalid, however? I am myself a witness to unknown phenomena. Granted I labeled it as supernatural due in part to confirmation bias, but there is no reason for me to become an activist at debunking all witness testimony.

Critics would argue that more truth is found through witness testimony than in spite of it.There is no enough evidence to support whether Jesus existed or not...nor whether God is real or not. There are many witnesses that affirm these things, and a small percentage of them are credible and reasonable to believe.On the contrary, those few who write of evidence against these stories usually have an ax to grind...they seem nearly obsessed with laying this stuff to rest. I don't trust them.

You can't lump The Resurrection in with Loch Ness Monsters and Bigfoot. And as I mentioned before, most witness testimonies are questionable. It's the ones that are not that we focus on.
One standard answer that appears logical was given here: Of course you will argue, among other things, that there is no witness from any "Holy Spirit" as believers often behave as bad or worse than unbelievers. You find it odd that we believers never seem to want to follow what you see as the basic message. Its almost as if you once stomped off from the church declaring that religion was full of it yet that you would accept only the duty of the message and needed no one to tell you what to do! That's a bit of an ax, one would think. This whole pursuit of truth fallacy won't ever be conclusive!Believers may never prove a case for Christ, but unbelievers will never have enough evidence against such a possibility either. The stories stand as they are, and the debate focuses on the authors and the motives of such authors.Also look at known respected Bible Teachers such as Henrietta Mears. She surely read the book many times from cover to cover and had valid conclusions on the authorship of the book. No ax there. Critics who attempt to trash her conclusions, in contrast, are hardly pristine seekers of truth...they spread discord and controversy among truth seekers.

I certainly question why they are skeptical and also why they are usually so adamantly against Christians in general. If I am lashing out at all, I am doing so in part out of ongoing curiosity. It is why I go round and round with you. If I found out later in life that you started a homeless shelter in Saskatchewan called SpareChange.Org, I would be humbled and impressed in that you actually were a Christian who merely refused to claim the title. If, on the other hand, I only came to saw you as a contrarian obstructionist who likes clever arguments, I would feel that my lashing out was necessary to defend belief in general as being rational. Of course one could challenge me to start my own soup kitchen...I have a friend who is starting one for the homeless which he named "The Sloppy Agape"... Not in terms of the impact that each event has and had on people. Henrietta Mears may well have had pre-conceived notions...not may people can claim to have original notions with no influence whatsoever...but she impacted a lot of people for the better. Had she believed in BigFoot instead of Jesus, she would never have been heard of.

Sure there is. You embraced His message...even if you don't believe He existed in any way different from Elmer Gantry. You certainly have shown no evidence of arguing as persuasively for or against Big Foot or even Long John Silver. Oh wait...Long John Silver was a character made up from an author. You may have a point that Believers, in general, make up the Jesus that they want. This says nothing about who the author was, who the authors were, or again as I insist...the motives of these many authors. Why can't you and I become authors and add to the storyline? What would your Jesus be doing today in the age of trump, War in Yemen, and EvC Forums?

Perhaps I should elaborate. The Resurrection obviously had impact and value. People won't even remember the Kardashians except as tabloid trivia...unless one of them does something meaningful for society. Jesus Death, Burial, and Resurrection were meaningful for society-at-large. One could argue that only the message had value. That it was told at all and preserved through antiquity confirms the value of the impact.
Does that make any sense?My point is that impact with a purpose has value.

I would certainly be more impressed if He took a moment to point out what I could better be doing in my life rather than simply saying to read the book or listen to Ringo wax poetic about Matthew 25. I would anticipate a good discussion with Him. As for His political stance, I cant speculate.

Of course I do. That's why many lectures end with a Q & A session. People feel better being able to discuss specific situations with the author rather than simply be told to buy the book on the way out. You and I disagree with this one. You likely wouldn't spend any time talking with me...pointing to the message you wrote 2000 years ago and going off to do other things. The Jesus that I believe in would take the additional time to answer my questions, address my concerns, and clarify what His 2000-year-old message means for me today. Books often get revised.Messages ultimately come from human lips...they don't just appear in the sky.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

You honestly have no idea if I obey or ignore the message. Just because I like to argue does not mean I believe my own conclusions!

I love God. I love my neighbors. If I were guilty of anything, it would be in being selective over whom I help. If a guy comes in our store and steals a bunch of stuff and runs out, I certainly won't give him the same consideration for a handout that I give others whom I see struggling yet respecting society despite being down and out.To put this in perspective, on my drive o work I see several people whom I recognize on the street...some whom we have encountered in our store. Jesus message was for them to repent as much as it was about me helping the least of them. Again, I may be guilty of being partial to the non-thieves first. Stealing from the store is stealing from the employees. Ultimately, I am not their judge. You will tell me that Jesus expects me not to judge. But I do. Which is one thing I would ask Him to clarify for me in our Q & A.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Because the book talks about one. I try and be realistic...which is kinda down the middle. Not too unreasonably optimistic yet not too pessimistic either.

I dont just talk about stuff and lie. If in fact I am lying at all, I am unaware of it.

we dont predict the future anymore than you do. If you think things are always gonna be a certain way "until the sun burns out" so be it. So you all claim the book was invented for propaganda and control over early people? How quaint. The bottom line is that your concept of the truth is no better than mine. You may claim that science is patently trustworthy in regards to when the sun will burn out and how stable and warm your life might be until then, but why not then use your logic, reason, and reality to explain how stable humanity is becoming and how we have outgrown our beliefs of old. Don't forget to include the FUD of modern media and news, an infotainment source that causes far more harm than any sermon in any church.

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Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

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You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

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Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile