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Author Topic:   Creation
Tom Larkin
Junior Member (Idle past 2402 days)
Posts: 25
From: Attleboro MA US
Joined: 07-09-2017


Message 338 of 1482 (815661)
07-22-2017 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by PaulK
07-22-2017 1:26 PM


Re: Alignment Evolution and Genesis
Congratulations! This is the first reply I have received to a post on this site that didn't actually start as "Wrong!", you actually attempted to engage in somewhat of a discussion by establishing your point your view.
I have made a logical Biblical argument, but if reject the Bible, then a Biblical argument is irrelevant. So I will just wish you well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by PaulK, posted 07-22-2017 1:26 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by PaulK, posted 07-22-2017 3:06 PM Tom Larkin has not replied
 Message 340 by jar, posted 07-22-2017 4:10 PM Tom Larkin has replied

  
Tom Larkin
Junior Member (Idle past 2402 days)
Posts: 25
From: Attleboro MA US
Joined: 07-09-2017


Message 341 of 1482 (815667)
07-22-2017 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by jar
07-22-2017 4:10 PM


Re: Alignment Evolution and Genesis
Given:is you reject any of these "givens" then let's start another post so we don't stray from the point
G1 - the Bible is the word of God (the current 66 books)
G2 - any scripture must be interpreted in light of all scripture, no scripture may be "privately interpreted"
Evidence:
E1: The creation in chapter1 describes the creation of the universe from the Big Bang (let there be light - initially photons only existed prior to even atoms) the creation of the universe, the creation of the stars, earth moon, sea life, plants, animals and humans.
E2: Creation of Chapter 2 describes the creation of Adam, the Garden and the animals.
E3: Throughout the book Genesis, the geneology of the line not leading to Jesus is always given first. This is consistent throughout the book including Seth, Shem, Isaac, Jacob, etc.
E4:In Genesis 6, it states the "sons of God" saw the "daughters of men" and saw that they were fair and took them as wives, but Noah was perfect in his generations.
E5: In 1 Cor and in Romans, Paul states we are born in "corruptible seed" through Adam and sown in incorruptible seed through the second Adam, Jesus.
E6: All mean and women alive today are descended from a most recent common ancestor (MRCA) who was alive when other men and women were alive (Nature 6Aug13 among many other sources)
E7: The are many occurrences in the Bible where the same story is retold from a different perspective (Kings and Chronicles) or to a different audience (the four Gospels)
E8: A lack of archaeological evidence does not prove that something did not exist (e.g. both King David and the city of Troy were thought to be myths until evidence of their existence was uncovered)
Discussion:
D1: The purpose of Genesis 1 is consistent with the rest of Genesis in that the line not leading to the Messiah is given before the line leading to the Messiah.
D2: The men and women of Genesis 1 are consistent with the "daughters of men" described in Chapter 6
D3: The creation described in Genesis 1 is not contradictory to our understanding of the evolutionary process.
D4: Noah was described as being "perfect in his generations" which means he was a direct descendent of Adam and Eve, and I assume his family was a well.
D5: Through Noah, we are all descended from Adam.
D6: The creation events in Genesis 1 and 2 are very different in order of creation, in what had already existed and even in the reason for creation of men and women (Genesis 1 - let's make man in Our image", Genesis 2 - "there was no one to till the ground"
Conclusions:
C1 The Creation accounts Genesis 1 and 2 are sequential, which is consistent with the genealogies in the book of Genesis and with Genesis 6.
C2 The account in Genesis 1 is not inconsistent with science, having Adam and the garden created after other men and women eliminates the conflict with evolution (men and women in chapter 1 followed the evolutionary process as is consistent with the order).
C3 We are all descended from Adam through Noah as he was "perfect in his generations", so this is consistent to the references to Adam in the New Testament.
Again, if you want to argue with the information in the "given"section, let's start another post as not to detract from the argument made here.
Go at it!
Edited by Tom Larkin, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 07-22-2017 4:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by jar, posted 07-22-2017 9:47 PM Tom Larkin has not replied
 Message 345 by PaulK, posted 07-23-2017 1:32 AM Tom Larkin has replied
 Message 347 by Granny Magda, posted 07-23-2017 10:09 AM Tom Larkin has not replied

  
Tom Larkin
Junior Member (Idle past 2402 days)
Posts: 25
From: Attleboro MA US
Joined: 07-09-2017


Message 343 of 1482 (815670)
07-22-2017 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Coyote
07-22-2017 8:48 PM


My goal is aligned with your goal, let the Bible be the Bible and let science be science. The Bible is not science and science is not faith. The reason I wrote my book (Genesis and Evolution) was that too many Christians were rejecting science, this is evident is many people thinking climate change is a hoax or fake news.
This is the main purpose of book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Coyote, posted 07-22-2017 8:48 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by ringo, posted 07-23-2017 2:16 PM Tom Larkin has not replied
 Message 350 by GDR, posted 07-24-2017 8:30 PM Tom Larkin has not replied

  
Tom Larkin
Junior Member (Idle past 2402 days)
Posts: 25
From: Attleboro MA US
Joined: 07-09-2017


Message 346 of 1482 (815697)
07-23-2017 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 345 by PaulK
07-23-2017 1:32 AM


Re: Alignment Evolution and Genesis
Good discussion - let's take these one at a time:
"This is false. The Creation starts with the Primordial Ocean - common to Creation Myths in the Ancient Near East, and the cosmology reflects that. It is at odds with science in many ways, which you have so far refused to discuss even when the issue has been raised."
I believe Genesis 1:1-3 is a very good description of what happened before, during and after the big bang. "n the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, ‘Let there be light,’ and there was light"
I see no alignment, other than wildly coincidental, with any of the creation myths of the near east. They are typically structured around individual gods vying for power with other gods. In these the earth and sky are already created.
I challenge you to put together a cohesive argumnet similar to what I put together that clearly demonstrates that Genesis is based on any of these.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by PaulK, posted 07-23-2017 1:32 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by PaulK, posted 07-23-2017 10:56 AM Tom Larkin has not replied

  
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