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Author | Topic: Is Jesus of 'Cursed Lineage' | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
HI,
You have proof that Jesus was born in Bethlehem? You have proof that Mary's genealogy is in the New Testament? Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
DO you have any idea how many children could have been born in Bethlehem in that very night? I have no idea, how many do you think were born that night? Do you have any idea when this night would have been?
Bethlehem wasn't a little town. It wasn’t, how do you know that?
Specifically Jesus was born in Judea, Bethlehem. Oh Bethlehem was bigger than Judea, I didn’t know that.
Just as an example, Monty Python's The Life of Bryan, the 3 Kings visit Bryan first instead of Jesus. Yes Monty Python’s Life of Brian is a very accurate portrayal of the Gospel narratives and should be used by all Divinity Faculties.
How do we know another wasn't born? Another what, another person whose mum was a virgin, another person whose parents spoke to angel’s on a regular basis?
Also I have never seen clear proof of Jesus' lineage being that of Solomon to David. Jesus wasn’t born of Davidic lineage, the Gospels are quite clear about this.
You cannot make up new laws, according to Jewish law which was in effect when Jesus was born, the lineage could not have been passed on to him. Which laws in particular would these be?
The Old Testament which is the founding word, should be followed not the guesses of the New Testament. I agree here, Christians have mutilated the Old Testament. Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi,
Joseph, the father of Jesus, But, Joseph wasn't Jesus' father, you have already acknowledged this.
If Jesus had been born of Joseph, the curse would have been contradicted. So, Jesus is not the son of Joseph.
She was a descendant of Nathan, one of David's other sons The bloodline never passes though the mother, thus Mary's genealogy is worthless. However, I don't think that Mary's genealogy is actually in the Bible.
God's promise to David was fulfilled because Mary was the biological parent of Jesus. But, hereditary titles and anything else, never passes through the mother, thus Jesus has no connection to David and is thus not the messiah. BTW, wasn't Mary a Levite? Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi Jar,
Deuteronomy 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD Jesus must have friends in high places Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi Tom,
The messiah was to be from the BLOODLINE of David, as you have discovered Jesus does not have any Davidic blood, thus he could not have been the messiah. 2 Samuel 7:12-13 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. The messiah is to be of direct descent from David, specifically though Solomon, which further negates Mary's 'genealogy'. The curse itself does not really make any difference as Jesus was not of Davidic blood. Conclusion, Jesus simply cannot be the messiah. Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
But Jesus was a bastard none the less wasn't he?
Bastards are not unique to the Old testament. BTW, I was pulling Jar's wee leg Brian
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi Tom,
2 Samuel 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. God has promised David to set up his seed after David is dead specifically through the son who built a house for God's name, namely the Solomonic Temple. The bloodline passes through Solomon's line as he built the Lord's house, Nathan is not included here. Also, the purity of genes (whatever that is) makes no difference to whether someone was married or not.
It is quite interesting that Nathan, was given this message from the Lord. He was given it to deliver to David. Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi Tom,
Fortunately, an unlikely source has aided scholars in unraveling this mystery. A source that was written about 400 years AFTER the Gospels is hardly convincing. This is just a 5th century attempt to explain away a problem. It is hardly evidence. This is not really that much different to citing answersingenesis as evidence that Mary was heli's daughter. I would be more impressed if Jesus' contemporaries were aware that Mary was the daughter of Heli. Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi A,
does it really matter who jesus's daddy was? It matters to a couple of billion people! But, we will never know who Jesus' daddy was. The genealogies in Luke and Matt are artificial just like the majority of the Old Testament ones. Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi
my point, and paul's i think, is that it's really not important. it shouldn't matter. Perhaps Paul knew something that we don't, namely that Jesus was not of Davidic descent? After all, Paul's writings are older than the Gospels. Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi Purple,
So what is the point of Immanuel? I believe that this is viewed as 'God with us' in purpose rather than God with us in the flesh. God was with Ahaz in his quest to defend Judah and not literally in his company. Immanuel can be found in Isaiah 8, as the son of the prophetess, whom many commentators believe is the 'virgin' referred to in chapter 7. Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
HI Phat,
The jews believe in a flesh and blood messiah and that he will free Israel from her enemies. The Immanuel in 7:14 is not a messiah, the passage is not about a messiah at all. It is about the birth of a boy as a sign that the alliance against Ahaz will fail. Cheers. Brian. This message has been edited by Brian, 01-07-2005 11:58 AM
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
It sure is cool how this forum just came out of no where. It's not like people got together and designed it. That would be persposterous. Everyone knows that over billions of years [comma] when they had computers that long ago, that ligthing struck it in just the right sequence to binarily write it. Yep, cool things nature can do uh? Your programs must run as smooth as silk dude. Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi A,
also, the last dozen chapters or so aren't even the same isaiah. Last I heard there is likely to be three authors of the book of Isaiah, with chapters 40-55 written by Deutero-Isaiah , and chapters 56-66 by Trito-Isaiah. Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi,
they moved to Galilee in the city of Nazareth and Jesus became a Nazarene. kjv Matthew 2:19-23. and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: He will be called a Nazarene". Which prophets (plural) said that "He will be called a Nazarene"? Cheers. Brian.
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