Profitable Christian Meetings

I like the basic idea and would be happy to participate in something like that.abe: Do get some feeling of there being pressure on people to "say something" meaning "something spiritual" which could be a problem. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

In Paul's words I don't hear the idea that everyone has to speak something, just that those who have a prophecy are to be orderly about it and not all speak at the same time; but somehow I keep hearing you using "one by one" to mean everybody must eventually say something. Am I mishearing you?I do believe Paul meant "prophecy" as a direct supernaturally imparted word from God which in those days before the New Testament was written was how God led the Church. The principle of orderliness applies in any case, but since we no longer have supernaturally imparted revelation as they did I'm not even sure the passage should be taken to apply to us.Nevertheless the basic principle of the meeting, in which there is freedom for everybody to exercise whatever gift they have, would be a welcome antidote to the passivity of always sitting and listening. I do have to say that in my church there is a lot of freedom for individual participation in the Sunday School which precedes the main service.

As I said, I didn't hear "HAS to speak" in Paul's words, only in yours. And it still sounds to me like that's what you're saying. Not that all must speak on demand of course, but that you do expect "all" eventually to be able to prophesy. But "all" can only refer to those who have the gift, not all in the congregation. Scripture itself tells us that ALL don't prophesy and didn't then, as it was a special gift and only some had that gift. "Do all prophesy?" Paul asks elsewhere, "Do all speak in tongues?" No, God gifts individuals as He wills and it's never ALL who receive a particular gift. Now, again, perhaps you don't mean to imply this, but it sounds like it. I was mishearing YOU, not Paul.However, you are applying the miraculous gifts to us today, which I've said I've come to regard as not in force for today. This is going to make conversation a bit rocky I think. Also you seem to want to give a special meaning to "prophecy" that I don't think is valid. It's always meant having a direct word from God, which makes it one of the supernatural/ miraculous gifts that I believe have ceased. It doesn't necessarily mean speaking something about the future, but it does mean speaking the direct words of God we hear within our spirit.ABE: Today it is often used simply to describe teaching or exhorting from the Bible, but I'm not sure that meaning is in the Bible itself."Prophecy" as practiced in the charismatic churches is usually not prophecy at all, it has nothing in common with New Testament prophecy, it's much more like fortunetelling or psychic knowledge, usually of a very trivial and even ungodly nature.I believe we may still hear from God nevertheless, but not as an ongoing gift, rather as a once-in-a-while occurrence. My experiences of this have been in private, instructions and corrections I've needed personally, not something intended for others.In a group setting I think the Holy Spirit may certainly stir up the memory of a scripture that applies to someone else's situation. I've had others speak very pertinent scripture to me when I've needed it. It would be nice to be in a group where that kind of sensitivity to the Spirit was frequent.But tongues have definitely ceased. It took me a long time to be sure of this because I myself had received that "gift." It never felt right to me though and it certainly never had the New Testament function of demonstrating the universality of the gospel. It was just a repeating pattern of sounds, a fairly lengthy pattern, and it can still happen to me. It's certainly not my own doing, but I think it's in the realm of "soul power" as Watchman Nee describes it, which can be stirred up in Christians although it's not a good thing because it comes from the sin nature we inherit from Adam. Nee himself says he experienced the ability to know what people were thinking and at first thought it was a gift from God, then realized it wasn't and turned away from it. It's likely that soul power accounts for most of the charismatic phenomena today, the true gifts of the Spirit having ceased. The Strange Fire Conference didn't address this side of it, just the ceasing, this explanation comes only from Nee that I know of. He discusses for instance the laughing phenomenon that swept American charismatic churches in the 90s as the "laughing revival." The same thing had occurred among Christians in China in the 30s, and Nee was one of those who tried to reveal its true nature as not from God. Yes but see above. If you have the time and the interest you might listen to some of the Strange Fire Conference some time, particularly Pennington's talk. Of course, but if there are no longer any valid tongues this shouldn't be happening at all in any Christian group. Again, see above. I do not accept that there is any valid tongues speaking today at all. I believe the Strange Fire Conference definitively put an end to that idea.The rest of your post continues in the same vein.When Paul spoke of prophesying, in the context of the New Testament Church that had to mean the miraculous gift of God's direct impartation to a person. He didn't mean just giving a Bible-knowledgeable encouragement to someone, which is the most common way we speak in the Spirit today.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I do disagree with some of the things you've said here but I don't want to neglect to say that I do like the basic idea even if I disagree with some of the particulars.I think small groups are needed for the Church to function rightly, and I particularly like your emphasis on seriousness, keeping the focus on God and spiritual matters and avoiding falling into fleshly attitudes. That alone would be a terrific achievement for most of the groups I've been in.I am personally "allergic" to anything that feels like pressure to behave in a certain way, and some of what you said raises that problem for me. But if the objective is to enhance the spiritual gifts of each participant and that is done without pressure it sounds wonderful and there should be many ways of bringing that about. Being asked to pray before coming to the group would probably help a lot with developing the right tone and attitude of seriousness, for instance. Then group prayer, then a call for a Bible reading or verse etc, or perhaps one person would be designated to offer that. Etc. Anything that would promote genuine spiritual listening and responding would be terrific. I wouldn't like to see the charismatic version of the "gifts" in play though, that would bother me a great deal having come out of that kind of situation years ago for good reason.

deleted. Just saw earlier posts I want to answer first.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Jaywill, I like the meeting itself, it sounds like a good time in the Lord and good things happening. I just keep getting thrown by what seems to me to be a very strange use of terminology, such as "prophecy" and "prophesy." You just aren't using them the way scripture uses them. Not everything Biblical that's said is prophecy and it seems confusing to use that term. Then you also say something I find odd when you use Paul's reference to the former worship of "dumb idols" by the Gentiles in the church to mean that he's talking about the ability to speak in the meeting. I see no connection.I don't think I've said anything about needing to know what everybody's gift is, or anything about legalism either. I have just been having trouble with the way you seem to call everything everybody says "prophecy" and sometimes when you talk about "encouraging" this or that it sounds more like requiring it. All the particular things you describe being said sound fine if they are spontaneous and I'll take your word for it that they are.The way you use "prophecy" particularly keeps throwing me and I believe you are wrong to use it the way you do, but I don't want to continue discussing it. As I said, it sounds like overall a good Christian gathering and I wish I had a similar group I could participate in.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

If Silas and Judas exhorted and encouraged in a way that is called prophecy in scripture then it came directly from the Lord because that's how the term prophecy is used in scripture. Yes, that's miraculous. I don't use the term to mean predicting the future though that is part of it, I use it to mean receiving and imparting direct communications from God.I'm not sure where today's common use of the term comes from that applies it to Bible exegesis.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The idea of a spiritually focused meeting like that is very appealing to me as long as it truly is spontaneous and guided by the Spirit. We don't need to call it anything in particular like "prophecy."I have no way to have such a group. I haven't even been to the church I consider mine for a long time, for many reasons. I'm pretty much a recluse and there are many reasons for that, including physical problems that make it hard to get out. Also this church I belong to rejects the idea of small groups as too easily promoting heresy. I think that's a mistake but the church itself is better than others in other ways.I have my Bibles and a large collection of Christian literature, and I listen to local Christian radio which is unusually good I think at programming the best preachers around the nation and the world, including my own pastor; but I also listen to Sermon Audio where all of these same preachers and others can be found. So I'm never at a loss for good teaching, though I do miss Christian fellowship. The thing is I can't say I actually had much fellowship IN the church anyway.My own place isn't really available for meetings, too much clutter that's accumulated -- that I'm trying slowly to dispose of. Only three functioning chairs too, but also I don't know where the Christians would come from if I did get the place in shape for such a gathering. I've often prayed for a meeting to be started somewhere in this apartment complex but it hasn't happened.So this discussion is academic for me at the moment. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

In my case, if you weren't aware of it, we're talking two sisters rather than two brothers. Yes, I continue to pray, off and on at least, that some kind of fellowship will become possible here.

I associate that kind of glorious immersion in the things of Christ with revivals, which is why I've been praying and hoping for revival for a long time.