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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: the insidious GMO threat (and it affects HFCS two ways ... ) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tempe 12ft Chicken Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 438 From: Tempe, Az. Joined: |
RAZD writes: And yet it can be done and is being done for products containing peanuts and other allergens with labels that say "may contain peanuts or peanut products" so the infrastructure is already there in that regard. Not that long ago this was not an issue, so I don't see this as a major issue. With peanuts, you are discussing an actual health risk with verified evidence of its existence. Earlier you said maybe the Big Ag companies had Seralini's paper retracted. Even if they were responsible for the retraction, it doesn't change the sloppy results that he came up with. First off, the test was initially planned as a toxicology test. This didn't return the results he needed, so it was turned into a test for cancer. Why cancer all of a sudden? It had to do with the rats he chose for his study. The rats are Sprague-Dawley rats and a paper in 1978 showed that females of these rats actually get tumors anywhere from 22-93% of the time (males I believe we 53%). If that wasn't enough of a risk of false positives in a cancer study, each test group had only twenty rats, ten male and ten female. Then, he tested over ten different combinations, and didn't control for his control rat chow, which most likely contained GMOs. He refused to publish all of his data, stating he was only publishing the relevant portions. And when he republished in a pay to play journal, he included the data...which showed one curious result only. The only dose response in the paper is that if you are male rat, and you drink Round-Up, you will live longer. That is the only actual dose related response he got in the entire study. But, again, Seralini's study is not the issue it's that the GM foods have been shown to be nutritionally substantially equivalent to the conventional produce. If there is a nutritional difference it should be a mandatory label, not a process. Otherwise label all non-Kosher foods. As for the cost, let's have a farmer explain it as she could do better than I can:
The Foodie Farmer RAZD writes: Again, the same process came into the market place to identify organic products as would apply to non-GMO, and we are seeing products getting certified to be GMO free. So whether they want it or not they can either identify products with GMO or have all products not labeled non-GMO regarded as including GMO. So stalling about labeling is just taken as evidence that they are hiding the effects of products that have questionable value compared to non-GMO foods. It's the way the tobacco industry behaved, where it took years to get to the truth. There is scientifically no more difference between GM crops and their conventional counterparts than there is between the same wheat crop grown in different soils. This isn't the industry saying its safe like it was with the tobacco industry. Yes, they are agreeing, but they are agreeing with the majority scientific consensus across the world. Even countries that do not like transgenic crops, the scientific institutions in those countries stand behind the safety of the technology. Even in Seralini's home country of France and the French Academy of Science:
French Academy of Science writes:
France's Academy of Sciences has published a report which says that the current criticisms of genetically modified (GM) crops are scientifically "unfounded." The article says that the report also calls on France's government to revise its position against the commercial use of GM food. French Academy of Sciences Position StatementThe theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams
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Tempe 12ft Chicken Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 438 From: Tempe, Az. Joined: |
Cat Sci writes:
There has been an increase in the amount of herbicide used, but along with this there is a reduction of the insecticides used in the growing process. Overall, pesticide use is down, but this still leaves for improvement by managing crops better and rotating. The addition of DuPont's Enlist Duo would allow farmers to rotate herbicides, which could slow the evolution of resistant weeds. Are you sure that's how it works? I thought you could get away with using less herbicide if you plant Roundup Ready crops... Too, the glyphosate herbicide has a better environmental impact than the alternative, so its even that much better.The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
There has been an increase in the amount of herbicide used, but along with this there is a reduction of the insecticides used in the growing process. Overall, pesticide use is down, Okay, I've seen that pesticide use goes down, and I know that herbicides are pesticides, but I didn't realize that herbicide usage goes up while insecticide use goes down leaving a net reduction in total pesticide. Its hard to find good clear information on this subject...
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Tempe 12ft Chicken Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 438 From: Tempe, Az. Joined: |
Well, looking at the site for the International Service for the Acquisition of Agri-Biotech Applications there is a list of the benefits seen in Biotech in their Executive Summary. They State:
ISAAA Executive Summary: writes: From 1996 to 2012, biotech crops contributed to Food Security, Sustainability and Climate Change by: increasing crop production valued at US$116.9 billion; providing a better environment, by saving 497 million kg a.i. of pesticides; in 2012 alone reducing CO2 emissions by 26.7 billion kg, equivalent to taking 11.8 million cars off the road for one year; conserving biodiversity in the period 1996-2012 by saving 123 million hectares of land; and helped alleviate poverty by helping >16.5 million small farmers, and their families totaling >65 million people, who are some of the poorest people in the world. Biotech crops can contribute to a sustainable intensification strategy favored by many science academies worldwide, which allows productivity/production to be increased only on the current 1.5 billion hectares of global crop land, thereby saving forests and biodiversity. Biotech crops are essential but are not a panacea and adherence to good farming practices, such as rotations and resistance management, are a must for biotech crops as they are for conventional crops. Here is their Executive Summary:
ISAAA And here is research showing an overall reduction of pesticide between 1996-2011 showing a reduction of 474 million kgs.
Source The reduction of the need to increase land for crop production because of increasing yields is the best thing this technology does for biodiversity. The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
quote: That's another example. People hear the fervor against the corporate practices of Monsanto and that can bias their opinion on how safe GMO foods are, even though the two issues are completely unrelated.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Hey, thanks!
International Service for the Acquisition of Agri-Biotech Applications Must just be another Big Ag Shill, eh?
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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Sorry, I forgot I was looking for a picture, then got distracted.
Genomicus claims
If farmers need to use hazmat suits to tend their crops, how does it become magically safe to consume once it hits the market shelf? Farmers don't need to use hazmat suits to grow GMO crops. But then we have many pictures like this:
- xongsmith, 5.7d
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1971 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
But then we have many pictures like this... Yup. But that's not the case for all GMO crops. Nor is it an idiosyncrasy of GMOs. And I would expect something like this given the vast number of gallons of chemicals being used to tend to these crops. Extrapolating that to the dinner table is grossly inappropriate.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Employees also have to wear both safety glasses and gloves when using Dawn dish soap.
And they use it right on our plates and utensils. ZOMG! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!
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Tempe 12ft Chicken Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 438 From: Tempe, Az. Joined: |
Xongsmith writes: But then we have many pictures like this: Created by the Organic movement to try and convince people that they are healthier....what they don't mention is that there are herbicides and insecticides used in organic agriculture and these are sometimes more toxic than those used by transgenic crops. Round-up has an LD50 that is higher than both table salt and caffeine. It would take more Round-up to kill 50% of the test group than it would take table salt. That is remarkably non-toxic to humans for an herbicide. One chemical that is still approved for use on organic crops by the USDA (only approved if the country of origin does not have a ban, the USA does not allow farmers to use it) is rotenone. An interesting secondary purpose of this chemical is use as a fish control agent to kill invasive species. It has this nasty ability to kill anything with gills. It does this by diminishing the fishes ability to get oxygen from water, so it basically suffocates them. And if you eat organic produce from other countries, you may just be ingesting some of this poison. Even worse, are the biodiversity effects that this pesticide has through its ability to decimate fish populations. Improper use could be detrimental to the environment, and this is an organic pesticide. BTW, one of the main chemicals used in transgenics, Bt Endotoxin, is also an approved pesticide in organic farming. They spray Bt onto crops and also occasionally inject it directly into the crop.
Mythbusting 101: Organic Farming Removing Fish from ponds with Rotenone Rotenone in Organic Production Edited by Tempe 12ft Chicken, : No reason given.The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Big ag outspent advocates of GMA labelling 20:1 in the election
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quote: So I fail to see any concrete valid reason to oppose labeling. http://earthweareone.com/...at-gmos-are-terrible-infographic
What disturbs me is the transfer into gut bacteria causing digestive problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dlt2sv0VNI and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dlt2sv0VNI People with significant digestive problems put on non-GMO diets clear up or improve within weeks. We are NOT a lab experiment for how much can be tolerated so that big corporations can make more profits without significant benefit to the consumer. This is like the pill industry trying new drugs with minimal (pro-industry) testing. All I need to do is google\bing gmo digestive issues to get 3,780,000 result gmo digestive issues - Search Top pick: Could GMOs Be Behind Your Digestive Problems? | GreenMedInfo | Blog
quote: As the video in Message 1 pointed out there are a host of diseases, mostly in the digestive tract, that have been on the rise during the period that GMOs have been on the rise. Now we also have increased chemical load (preservatives, food color, other additives) during the same period, but removing these from the diets of afflicted people does not produce the same dramatic improvement results that removing GMOs have produced. American Academy of Environmental Medicine:
Position Paper on Genetically Modified Organisms quote: Now this kind of effect may not be that much of a concern to you, however I have a challenged immune system due to my lymphoma and the treatments I have had for that (currently in remission) and I initially made a diet change to remove all sugars, gluten and starches from my diet as much as possible, and I have now added GMOs to the list of foods to avoid -- because I do not need to help the cancer kill or weaken me. Since dumping GMOs I have enjoyed the longest period of remission to date, and I see no reason to change back. There is an ap for smartphones (Fooducate) that allows you to check food products for a number of factors, including GMO content. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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The day we started selectively breeding cultivars they became GMO's. I don't see why we should draw an arbitrary line between selective breeding of new naturally occurring variants and directly manipulated genomes. This is the standard line from the GMO companies ... but it is not correct: WE did not modify those organisms, we only selected the mutations that produce better crops for our particular taste\use. The goal was improved food value. Genetic modification is defined by injecting or shooting bits of DNA to actively cause mutations with the hope that one will be "useful" (while additional effects are ignored). Most of them have centered on making the crops toxic to pests or resistant to herbicides (which the GMO companies also make, so more could be used on unintended plant growth - weeds). This affects the ecosystem of the farmland in ways that are not good. Very little is done to improve the food value, it is only "useful" to corporate profits. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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There has been an increase in the amount of herbicide used, but along with this there is a reduction of the insecticides used in the growing process. Overall, pesticide use is down ... Because the toxins are built into the crop rather than sprayed on (where they can be washed off). Because they are internal they cannot be washed off, and you are stuck with consuming them ... or not eating that product. Curiously, I choose the latter course as better for my health and welfare. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Since you don't incorporate the genes of your food into your genome, I don't need to worry about becoming resistant to Roundup. Yay, I can kill all the bacteria in my gut that breaks down food so it can be digested (as happens in all animals ... ) ... but I don't need to worry because it won't affect my spermies. Enjoy.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
quote: That doesn't tell us anything... What are we talking here, 1 out of 2? Or 1 out of 1000? If there are 2 farmers out there that separate, and thousands that don't, then creating separate storage and packaging lines is still an issue.
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