Was Jesus' crucifixion all part of God's plan?

No...quite honestly I just make stuff up. To me, it makes more sense for God to have created the possibility of evil...actualized by the choice of Lucifer itself. in essence, Jesus...having been around since Day One....existed even before either Lucifer or satan. Thus quite possibly Jesus was Gods foreknown response to the actuality of evil.

Nobody is ever forced to breathe poison. We are warned...by common sense...to stay clear of it. There is oxygen enough for everybody.

and that is human fault---not Gods.

Are we getting back to the old "blame God for evil" game? sheesh! Perhaps God foreknew that if evil were completely eliminated we would be forced robots. The very idea of evil, according to some, is the dark side of free will.

So what if the mailman was entitled to "fall into" something else besides you? What if depriving him of that hole meant that he was eternally predestined to deliver mail to you and only you? *oh nevermind, i give up* Why is freewill basically a joke? Look at it like a movie script. Within the script, characters say the lines they are assigned. Imagine, however, if the director allowed them to ad lib. Would the movie still be the whim of the director?

so in other words, you dont feel as if you actually have free will i take it....

Do you have any objections to obeying Jesus...as well as getting to know Him?

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if God gave you a chance to voice your objections to the way men wrote about and perceived Him...what would you say...provided He gave you the freedom (grace) to say whatever was on your mind and heart? Additionally how would you want Him to be?

According to some dogma, Gods plan was to allow humanity to choose...which brought separation and death. Critics(you among them) would argue that were God loving and responsible He would have never allowed the sneaky snake to tempt newly created innocent creatures.Quite frankly that makes sense. The issue is what exactly has happened to humanity.Has humanity lost the ability to be good? You say that you would prefer that God(if God exists) or Jesus to simply leave you alone and let you freely choose to be responsible, giving spare change to every down-on-their-luck Canadian in your town whom you come upon. Thus, you seem to assume that there is no Original Sin...like jar, you believe that the gift given to humanity was no curse...it was an awareness and charge to be responsible---helping others whenever and however possible.If what you believe is true, perhaps you additionally believe that Jesus need not shepherd you through life...you can find your own way, thank you very much. jar is similar. I guess some of us feel that we have been given the ability to freely choose to believe in ourselves---and that, at our best---we create our own grace. We need no gifts with conditions attached. Am I close? In other words, we save ourselves(or redeem ourselves) entirely through our own actions? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

when Jesus saves us, we dont get the credit nor the power...so we hate it.When the force frees you, you get the power...thus you like it.Plus the force never demands obedience...only respect.Conclusion: People would like Jesus better if He gave them the power.

well, at least this "once evil" character has the humility to reflect on her bad choices in the past....what is she on the good side now?

And you good sir are reppin the good side quite respectfully. (For those here who don't know Raphael as I do, he was a camp counselor over the summer and hopefully inspired a few young minds to contemplate their destiny and help humanity somewhat. ) Any advice for we secular intellectuals? Im sure that you have grown a bit and seen the college intelligentsia at work!

I always figured "The Force" to be somewhat Yin/Yang Dualism.

w Just because we are aware of what good and bad mean and that we are conscious of it does not mean that we sheep know what we are doing...because if you observe this world and read the news you will see sheep behaving very badly. Oh sure there are good sheep...but I'd say that the Shepherds purpose is better than anything that we can come up with on our own. Its the church that has driven people away from Jesus.. sheep who would be shepherds. Edited by Phat, : spelling bee

It cheapens the message that you prefer. I swear you must have had a Jewish Mother.You have this idea that you are responsible for everything. The whole idea of Jesus is that He took on the responsibility...much as you would if you were at a fish fry and they ran out of fish. Humans do not have the ability to fix everything ourselves.And if you admit that Jesus helping us turns it into a whats-in-it-for-me game, you are essentially admitting and exposing human nature for the imperfect fraud that it is. Which is, of course my point.

Not necessarily. I try and do my best and fail often. I ask for forgiveness and the strength and wisdom to move on. I am not so vain as to believe that "only humans will ever do anything". (Naive too)Seems you never believed in the Spirit because you were too busy asking "what the hell that mean't"...too trapped in your own logic and reason to consider the Spirit to be part of reality.Nicene Creed:"I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. "It is never cheap to ask for help nor to accept it. You have too much of that Eastern Prep School machismo do-it-yourself attitude.

It may have been true that He preached this message to His own Jewish Disciples. They had no empowerment nor grace...for He had not yet died and risen.He even predicted that Peter would fail. Where did He do it imperfectly? The only reason you guys believe He did it imperfectly is because you do not recognize Him as God. You see only a human.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.