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Author Topic:   Is It Bigoted To Have A Supported Opinion?
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 161 of 175 (699562)
05-21-2013 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by dwise1
05-21-2013 12:59 AM


Re: Communion
dwise1 writes:
but the books of the Bible depend entirely upon their authorship so if they were not truly written by their purported authors then they lose their validity.
I haven't been following this thread but I noticed this and thought I'd add my 2 cents.
I disagree with that statement. The fact is that we don't know exactly who wrote the Gospels but my own view is - so what. Luke at the start of his Gospel writes the following:
quote:
1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
The point is that the authors of the Gospels might actually have been men named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and possibly we know nothing else about them. It is also possible that they are the names of disciples of Jesus and that someone else has recorded the accounts on behalf of the disciples from both oral and written accounts.
They are written as historical documents and we can all make up our own mind as to what we believe about them and about their accuracy. We know that there are contradictions within details of the Gospels which is what we would expect if there were many shorter recorded accounts that the writers have compiled to their narratives.
One things that the Gospels are all in agreement with is the bodily resurrection into a new bodily form of Jesus. I really don't see how anyone can really doubt that they believed this to be the case so IMHO the question is whether they were mistaken or not. I choose to believe that they got it right.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by dwise1, posted 05-21-2013 12:59 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by dwise1, posted 05-22-2013 12:57 AM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 168 of 175 (699601)
05-22-2013 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by dwise1
05-22-2013 12:57 AM


Re: Communion
dwise1 writes:
So I'm not talking about questions of which specific humans wrote those books of the Bible. In fact, I specifically say that it does not matter! So what's your point?
The issue is that many believers value the Bible and its contents solely because of its purported Divine Authorship. I believe that is wrong, that the content itself needs to be examined and evaluated on its own merits, but that's not what believers in Divine Authorship do. They believe that the contents of the Bible are all correct and perfect because they believe that God Himself wrote the Bible, whether directly or indirectly. And that is certainly how Phat has been presenting himself in this matter.
You're right and I apologise. I gathered from jar's post that you felt that the Gospels lacked validity on the basis of authorship. Obviously that isn't what you were saying.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by dwise1, posted 05-22-2013 12:57 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 169 of 175 (699602)
05-22-2013 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by dwise1
05-22-2013 1:12 AM


Re: Communion
Dwise1 writes:
Yes, I do in fact believe that the Bible's contents need to be examined and evaluated, but that is something that Bible believers will not stand for. To a Bible believer, if we find even one single error in the Bible, then the entire Bible is false and God either does not exist or is a liar whom you should not worship, so you must therefore become an atheist. That is what countless fundamentalists have witnessed to me and they were extremely adamant about it. I believe that position of theirs is completely wrong and self-destructive, but they will fight very viciously to maintain that position.
I'll try reading what you have to say before replying this time.
Actually I couldn't agree more. My Christian faith is the most fundamental aspect of my life and yet if I felt it was necessary to understand the Bible as being the inerrant word of God I would have to leave the faith.
First off, you only have to read the Bible with all of its contradictions, errors and for that matter the personal anecdotes of the authors to understand that it is not God dictated. Worse than that however it paints a picture of a sometimes loving god, a sometimes vengeful god, a sometimes hateful god, a sometimes cruel god etc. It paints a picture of a god that is of no discernible nature meaning that you can understand him in any image that suits you.
If however we consider the Bible as being written by men inspired to write their personal understandings and accounts, recognizing that their individual and cultural biases will show up in what they write, we actually can then come up with a coherent narrative and within that narrative a relatively clear understanding of God.
Christianity started out being Christ centred and now in many instances, particularly on this continent it has become so Bible centric that Jesus is virtually left out.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by dwise1, posted 05-22-2013 1:12 AM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Phat, posted 05-22-2013 7:39 AM GDR has not replied
 Message 173 by ramoss, posted 05-22-2013 4:06 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 175 of 175 (699654)
05-22-2013 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by ramoss
05-22-2013 4:06 PM


Re: Communion
ramoss writes:
One of the common Jewish attitudes to the scriptures is that is the a document showing man's search for God, with all of man's warts and all exposed.
I'd agree with that.
ramoss writes:
I think you will see one reoccurring theme in the Jewish scriptures is that there were a lot of great men who were rulers that had a lot of great flaws too.. but, according to the Bible, were accepted by god, despite their great flaws.
As something far less than a great man but still with great flaws I also believe that I am accepted by God.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by ramoss, posted 05-22-2013 4:06 PM ramoss has not replied

  
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