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Author | Topic: Is It Bigoted To Have A Supported Opinion? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
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Is It Bigoted To Have A Supported Opinion? Is this a serious question? It's bigoted to be a bigot. Why should anyone care about your justification? Rationalizing is a part of what bigots do. Very few people are evil in their own mind. Really, you'd almost have to believe that Jesus never walked the earth to come up with some of this stuff.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass |
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
So obviously my position on whether our moral judgments should affect which rights we confer or withhold is inconsistent, varying according to which moral judgment is under consideration. As stated, your position is inconsistent. But perhaps we can rescue your position by acknowledging that some things can be seen to be wrong or illegal per se, while other things are wrong simply because somebody finds them icky and passes a law enshrining their displeasure into law. Example homicide vs. homosexuality. There are a number of acceptable ways to categorize such behavior (does it hurt other people, does it infringes on the rights of others, does it use up community resources), but just because some behavior making me hold my nose simply does not cut it.
But if you were arguing that gay marriage is immoral and that we should withhold certain rights from gay partners (inheritance, medical access, etc.), then I'm not with you. And then there is the point that the punishment has nothing to do with the crime itself. I'd consider that to be an indicator that the morality train is derailed. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
If someone genuinely had a good argument against gay marriage they wouldn't stop to such tactics. It is exactly this common pattern that leads me to conclude that the real opposition to gay marriage is founded on bigotry. Yes. That and the fact that the pattern of the argument works equally well for discrimination that we all accept as bigotry, like not allowing marriage between people of different faiths, races, or ethnic origin. Hopefully these arguments will one day will be era relics like the 'Lost Cause' and the state's 'duty' to maintain racial purity. The argument is, in essence, that if one cannot discriminate gay people, then you ought to be able to marry your underage daughter. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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God merely was dealing with humans whom had already chosen to adopt and/or institute slavery. That's a real tough interpretation to defend. After removing the Hebrews from bondage and then doing 40 years of nation building out in the wilderness, you might have anticipated plenty of some opportunity to rub some of the rough edges off. Perhaps those Hebrews filtered God's word through their own ideas of right and wrong. It wouldn't be the last time that anyone did that.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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I don't see anything wrong with wanting to keep your race and culture strong. I understand wanting to preserve your culture, but what 'race' are people from India? In previous discussions we've talked about how racial divisions are artificial, but the race of people from India is surely one of the more artificial of the artificial divisions.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
How about the race of Americans. For that matter, what is American culture? Now that you mention it, perhaps the idea of preserving your culture is pretty silly as well. If you are one of the last few survivors speaking some language, then I can see not wanting your language to disappear from earth, but is that really something that's at risk when an American marries someone from India? Can't the 1 billion other Indians do that or hundred's of millions of Americans that aren't your kids?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Lowering the pile
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : ah phat....Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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No, I am not calling Phat a Nazi. Rather, his appeals for support from such articles are no more valid than Nazis' appeals for support from their own propaganda rags. It's just that everybody can more readily see that in the Nazis' case. Despite the disclaimer, I'd suggest that Godwin's postulate has been invoked. Nazi comparisons are almost always over the top.
Euclid's Geometry is just as valid and valuable regardless of whether Euclid had actually written it Great example. Although I find it totally cool that we do know exactly who did write it and approximately when, you are right that it is valuable for other reasons that it's authorship.
but the books of the Bible depend entirely upon their authorship so if they were not truly written by their purported authors then they lose their validity I take some issue with this as a blanket statement. In many cases, the authors of books in the Bible are third parties uninvolved in the events that they describe, and the actual identity of the author is of almost no importance. For example, I'd argue that the authorship of Job is completely irrelevant to whatever value is offered by the text. Of course for Bible literalist, every tiny detail of authorship is of heightened importance.
Rather then futilely seeking support for his opinions, he needs to present an actual case for those opinions so that they can stand or fall because of their own validity. There is no real case to be made. I believe the real motivation for bigotry, is that Phat and his ilk find what gays do to be 'icky' (with the possible exception of deeds done by really hot lipsticks) and thus are willing to focus on Bible interpretations prohibiting the practice while ignoring clear prohibitions on the stuff they themselves do. I'll admit to finding gay sex 'icky' myself. I also find runny eggs to be icky, so I don't eat them, rather than taking the step of campaigning to make eating such eggs unconstitutional.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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