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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: bombs in Boston ... and now in Texas??? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
He could think that the US Government should be overthrown. He could think (and many do) that he should be at war with the US. By your own admission, such rationalizations are wrong. He cannot be at war with the US.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
They are legally wrong but that is simply a matter of law. Technically he would be in a State of Rebellion. But we still claim there was a Civil War and a Revolutionary War.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1533 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined:
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Hello NoNukes, I think we agree.
I meant that if we as a society cave in to terrorist then they have accomplished their goal. Nothing can be done really to stop someone from doing something evil and heinous. But should that stop Americans from having marathons, or having large organized sporting events?
Let's not spend money on detecting guns on planes because that's what the terrorists want us to do? Does that make sense to you? No this makes no sense. We have to do what we must to deter and hopefully prevent acts of terror. I meant we as a society should not change our ideology simply because we want to appease a certain group who will resort to violence to achieve a goal."You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 314 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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An excellent therapist I once knew made the point that in almost all cases of a criminal psychotic acting-out there was an easier alternative that the disturbed person overlooked. Brenda Spenser, for instance, could have walked to the local supermarket and bought a carton of chocolate milk instead of shooting eleven people, most of them children. The psychotic person actually chooses the more difficult path; he forces his will uphill. It is not true that he takes the line of least resistance, but he thinks he does. There, precisely, lies his error. The basis of psychosis, in a nutshell, is the chronic inability to see the easy way out. All the behavior, all that constitutes psychotic activity and the psychotic lifestyle, stems from this perceptual flaw. --- Philip K. Dick, Strange Memories Of Death.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
we as a society should not change our ideology simply because we want to appease a certain group who will resort to violence to achieve a goal. I agree, yet I see jars point. He would argue that we citizens are responsible for the behavior of our government and that many foreign and a few domestic people are at war with this government. A civil war, were they domestic. I maintain, however, that no jury (at least of US citizens) would ever condone such an action, and that we the people can not, nor should not change our behavior nor our daily actions simply because some individual or group of individuals demands that we do. In essence, i have picked my side in this battle...the side that protects and supports the American people.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I meant we as a society should not change our ideology simply because we want to appease a certain group who will resort to violence to achieve a goal. I agree, for some definition of the word 'ideology'. But some policies we might have are clearly counterproductive, and one of the factors that makes them counterproductive is the expectation of a terrorist response. I know the neo-cons tell us not to think like that, but I think that advice is foolhardy.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1533 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
I was stationed in Germany in the mid 1980's as a soldier.
Being from a free society like America, I was not use to the counter terrorist measures being employed in central Europe airports and train stations. I am talking submachine guns ,dogs and searches. ( "your papers please.") But you must understand that was a way of life over there. Red Army Faction and IRA and a host of other groups had changed that society to be more wary. We here in the US did not get our wake up call untilSeptember 11, 2001. The US will never be the same. We lost our naivety that day. We know now that a free society is always at risk to have violence perpetrated against them. It is a trade off between being free or being safe. We choose freedom. I can not express how pissed I am over Boston. I believe this will unite our country more than tear it down. Just look at how the Yankees played Sweet Caroline hosting the Red Sox! "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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Tempe 12ft Chicken Member (Idle past 365 days) Posts: 438 From: Tempe, Az. Joined:
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1.61803 writes: Just look at how the Yankees played Sweet Caroline hosting the Red Sox! I actually thought that this was an extremely moving thing to see.
Could not get the video to work, you will have to follow this link to YouTube to watch it The song was also played by the Dodgers, Cubs, Marlins, Braves, and Athletics. And the Milwaukee Brewers played the theme song from Cheers. However, seeing the fans that I have watched hate Boston and everything its teams stand for for many years stand and sing just as proudly as they do in Fenway was very touching. It does kind of show the mentality that exists in this country of, "whether the perpetrator is foreign or domestic, you mess with one area of this country and we will stand together." Edited by Tempe 12ft Chicken, : No reason given. Edited by Tempe 12ft Chicken, : Changed video coding for link codingThe theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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jar writes: The thing here is that we the people don't like civil wars. In essence, this is not a U.S. issue...its a global issue and, globally, humanity appears to be in a civil war. Human against human. Nobody likes to be targeted and feels a legitimate threat when another individual or group targets them.
Technically he (hypothetical Wyoming rancher) would be in a State of Rebellion. But we still claim there was a Civil War and a Revolutionary War. Boston Herald writes: Twelve years after the nation came under attack in the skies followed almost immediately by an attack through the mail a sick pattern appears to be repeating itself. Authorities have launched an investigation into letters sent through the mail to President Obama and at least one U.S. senator letters that preliminary tests indicated were positive for the deadly poison ricin. And sickos are calling in threats intended to inspire fear, including at the federal courthouse here in Boston. It’s the toxic equivalent of pouring salt into a wound. Yes, we are feeling vulnerable in these days following the bombing in our very own city. Now individuals with evil in their hearts have moved to take advantage of those feelings of vulnerability and to spread them all around, including throughout the nation’s capital. Note my underline. Individuals with evil in their hearts. Now...it may well be that when the United States invaded Iraq, we the people saw all Iraqis as the enemy, since they all seemed to support Saddam. In the same way, perhaps our enemy sees all of we Americans as complicit towards the military industrial complex that makes drones and engages in wars on foreign soil to secure national interests. However.... as has been said, the difference between Boston and a Military Drone attack is that in the former, civilians were intentionally targeted whereas in the latter, civilian deaths were said to be collateral damage. Still....I agree with you that America need examine its national purpose in this world. You wont find many people wanting to do so now, however...they want revenge! Terrorism wont easily bring us to either the altar of repentance nor the negotiating table. We are a stubborn and proud people.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Terrorism wont easily bring us to either the altar of repentance nor the negotiating table. And where should terrorism bring us? Surrender? (To who?) Negotiate? (With who?) Repent? (To who?)
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
surrender to Jesus Christ.
Negotiate....I dunno. Im not in favor of negotiating with terrorists. Repent and kill our flesh so that we no longer support the military industrial complex. When i say surrender, i mean that we are to surrender our sinful nature to God. If we still got attacked after that, our enemy is then in the wrong.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Granted that was my unthinking kneejerk fundie response. But lets talk a moment, shall we?
In this BBC news link, the investigation lines up its likely suspects.
Boston marathon bombings: Possible lines of inquiry quote: There are no extremists in the immediate circle of club christian that I socialize with. We do believe that humanity is imperfect, contrary to most secular humanist wisdom...we believe and can find evidence supporting the idea that human culture is capable of both good and bad actions, and I personally will admit that one need not be religious in order to be extremely good or extremely bad. So who do the authorities think is the most likely suspect(s)?
BBC writes: A home-grown US operator with a domestic agenda So it looks as if jar may have been right. such an individual need not be classified as mentally disturbed...albeit fanatical. As for my kneejerk reaction? First off, I am a champion of freedom and believe that I live in a good(used to be great) country. We love things like the Boston Marathon. The very idea of an attack that targets the crowd, not even the runners themselves...causes internal outrage. And as a Christian who believes in the idea that humans have a sinful nature...I quite naturally think we all need to surrender in the sense that we need to kill our greedy selfish flesh and allow the Spirit of Love, Wisdom, and Peace dominate. (I was, in essence, preaching to myself. ) Some would strongly disagree, of course...i can see hooah, theodoric, and coyote preeminent amongst them. Im sorry I am pessimistic on human potential. I simply dont see humans alone and of themselves willing to survive and love each other, thinking of others better than ourselves...as the Bible suggests we do. I know that I dont want to sacrifice my way of life to better the poor of the globe, and maybe this is why there is so much war and strife in the world...hence why I say that for me at least, I need Jesus.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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Hold on a cotton-pickin-minute! I can't let this just pass:
Phat writes: We do believe that humanity is imperfect, contrary to most secular humanist wisdom... I've never seen any secular humanists claiming that "humanity is perfect". Where do you get this stuff from? Do you think a rejection of the notion of original sin (or whatever Christian doctrine it is you are advocating) equates to concluding that humanity is "perfect".....? I don't even know what "perfect" humanity would look like anyway. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. One man's idea of perfection is another man's idea of defective. So the whole notion of "perfect humanity" is just nonsensical.
Phat writes: I quite naturally think we all need to surrender in the sense that we need to kill our greedy selfish flesh and allow the Spirit of Love, Wisdom, and Peace dominate. If you honestly believe that then I am perplexed as to why you think killing people is a bad thing rather than merely a method of hastening them to this wondrous state of spiritual existence where they are devoid of "selfish flesh"....? It seems your idea of perfection includes an absence of physical existence....
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But the part that you underlined is simply unsupported assertion that happens to be what YOU want to hear.
Yes, the US has the technology to be more sophisticated in choosing targets, but that is not true of all people. Those who do not have our sophisticated and expensive weapons must use what they have. And the US certainly takes the same position about innocent civilians if they happen to be near one of our targets.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
But the bombing did make Obama (and most of the government) look ineffective. How so? I think the government response was very effective and more than adequate.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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