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Author | Topic: Morality without god | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
Follow the discussion. I have been. Yet I am still perplexed, because I do not believe that you have greater, more detailed knowledge of Irish history than an Irish person. The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Messages 781, 807, 809.
Concerning the nature of Christianity and Ireland's early Christianity whch was not Romanism.
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 3719 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined:
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Faith I don't know if I mentioned that I work as an Art Therapist, my qualification is as a Secondary school teacher I'm quite well versed in Irish History I asure you. Further more what the Hell does St Patrick have to do with this conversation?
Secondly i asked for some illustration of how as u put it "God has convinced me that all His judgments are righteous" - I'm not asking u to convince me, not even sticking my fingers in the wounds of Jesus' palm like Thomas would do that for me, but I'm curious to know what lead you to that conclusion
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
For me, it is really a simple concept. We judge for ourselves whether or not the actions or commands of a deity are moral. We are moral agents. It is obvious to me that morality exists independently of any deity or claim of divinity. Or as Euthyphro considered it, the pious is loved by the gods because it is pious. Yes this is standard human-centered rationalism, but Christianity is based on revelation and by God's revelation we understand that human beings are fallen and handicapped by having lost contact with God, therefore by our inability to fully understand His moral law. Depending on our own judgment is guaranteed to lead us astray. Lead us to Hell as well. But He had mercy on us and gave us His word so that we can understand the truth, the true morality and the way of salvation. But it does require giving up trust in ourselves for trust in Him.
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 3719 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
Can u answer my question Faith - I thin I've been quite patient with u so far could explain how u know all this to be true? U use the word convinced earlier - that implies some level of evidence
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
It started back where you said Ireland was going atheist because of the horrors of Catholicism -- the Magdalene laundry scandal just one of many, you could also mention the predation of Irish Catholic children by Roman pedophile priests -- so I said Catholicism isn't Christian so it isn't Christianity the nation is rejecting by rejecting it. Which led me to point out that Ireland was originally not Roman Catholic at all but truly Christian, until Rome conquered the island by the sword, and Patrick is a good example of how Romanism made itself out to be Christian, even co-opting your national saint.
If you knew all that, fine, but don't call Catholicism Christian.
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 3719 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
I'm sorry if my muddled terminology offended but from this side of the fence you all look quite similar - and most folk over here are slowly growing to rejecting ALL religious claims. Personally i think this is a very good thing
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The Bible is sufficient evidence for me. Once you believe the Bible is God's word you know the God who inspired it and you don't judge God. Too many here have the effrontery to judge God by their own fallen intellect and corrupted moral sense -- They have no fear of God which is the beginning of wisdom -- but a believer knows better.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sad but yes that is the way the whole world is going.
But you know what's going to happen? Watch and see. In the place of Christianity you are going to get a resurgence of pagan religions, witchcraft and superstitions, in modern New Age form, with all kinds of supernatural effects, and since all that is perfectly in keeping with the Roman Church, which again, isn't even remotely Christian, don't be surprised to see the Roman Church growing in influence in spite of all your hopeful atheism. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 3719 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
I'm very happy about it, secular countries tend to do very well and I'd hate my son to live in a religious country.
How do u rationalise problems such as those posed by herod/quirinius, and other inaccuracies that make the bible seem man made rather than divinely dictated?
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GrimSqueaker Member (Idle past 3719 days) Posts: 137 From: Ireland Joined: |
Faith u do have a point about New Age peeking it's head, but i am tackling those too (check out my Facebook if your curious how!)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You need to use the "Reply" button at the bottom right of the post you are answering.
Watch and wait, no nation is going to remain "secular" for long. There are no inaccuracies in the Bible, that's all made up by hostile "scholars."
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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None of which you can support with evidence.
Typical.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I don't have a Facebook account and don't want one.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I can't support what? The claim that Catholicism isn't Christian? Oh the evidence is thick, and I've used some of it here. But of course there's no way to deal with denial, which is the usual response to the evidence. Or that Patrick wasn't a Catholic or what?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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