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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3806 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


(2)
Message 1176 of 5179 (686828)
01-04-2013 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1174 by Percy
01-04-2013 11:45 AM


Re: Statistical Blindness
Hello Percy,
I thought I might provide a link to a video that might help illustrate your point about 'criminal advantage.'
ABC News

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1174 by Percy, posted 01-04-2013 11:45 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1181 by Percy, posted 01-04-2013 4:13 PM DBlevins has not replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3806 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


(1)
Message 1177 of 5179 (686830)
01-04-2013 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1175 by xongsmith
01-04-2013 12:55 PM


I have to respectfully disagree. Gun control regulations can reduce the incidences of mass killings, though they will never completely eliminate accidents or murders. A prime example of this is what happened in Australia after a 1996 mass shooting. In the 15 years after the gun-control measures were put into effect, there has not been a mass shooting in Australia. Not only that but homicides declined by 59%, suicides by 69%, while robberies using a gun dropped significantly and home invasions did not increase.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1175 by xongsmith, posted 01-04-2013 12:55 PM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1178 by Rahvin, posted 01-04-2013 1:18 PM DBlevins has not replied
 Message 1179 by xongsmith, posted 01-04-2013 2:51 PM DBlevins has replied
 Message 1185 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2013 8:28 PM DBlevins has not replied
 Message 1186 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2013 8:31 PM DBlevins has replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3806 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 1245 of 5179 (687020)
01-06-2013 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1179 by xongsmith
01-04-2013 2:51 PM


First, the USA is an Outlier in all comparisons of nations...This means that those tools that may have worked elsewhere are not expected to work in the USA.
Complete BS. Being an 'open question' doesn't mean that the tools are NOT expected to work in the Us. It means that the writer thinks that there could be a debate on whether the tools would work or not.
Unless you believe that Americans are somehow a special breed of humanity with cultural values that are not shared with many others.
Certainly gun laws can make a difference here in the USA - but not that much at this time.
That is just your opinion and is not backed up by research.
We need to change the whole national mindset here.
I agree that we need to change the mindset. I would start with the mindset that says having a gun buyback program and strict regulation of guns will not work with 'Americans.'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1179 by xongsmith, posted 01-04-2013 2:51 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3806 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


(1)
Message 1246 of 5179 (687022)
01-06-2013 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1186 by crashfrog
01-04-2013 8:31 PM


According to wikipedia, there's been a mass shooting and a mass arson since the gun-control measures you refer to went into effect - the Childers Palace Fire and the Monash University shooting.
Thank you for the information on the Monash University shooting. If we include that in the statistics as a 'mass-shooting' (which it could very well have become) then that would be one mass-shooting, in the last 16 years. If we compare the previous decade's 11 mass shootings, from the time of the 1996 gun law, to the next decade's 1 mass shooting after the law took effect, then I think we can consider that statistically significant in regards to the effect that the gun law had on mass shootings. It should also be pointed out that the Australian government instituted more regulations in response to the Monash University shooting.
Why you included arson in the discussion is confusing, and though I might speculate I would rather you tie it into the discussion than me trying to put words into your mouth.
Homicides increased in Australia after the gun ban went into effect, armed robberies increased by almost 4000 per year, and neither decreased until eight years later, when homicide rates began decreasing in every OECD country, including the ones (like the US) that made no particular efforts at gun control.
Do you have links to the data? I am curious where you got your data as my literature research did not show any statistically significant increase in gun crime after the gun law went into effect. It does show a steady decline in the use of firearms in robberies, starting from 1997, the year the gun law went into effect. (Notice figure 1 on page 2.)
(I might also add that it was not an outright gun ban as you seem to imply. Rather it was a ban on only some types of firearms.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1186 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2013 8:31 PM crashfrog has not replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3806 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 1247 of 5179 (687023)
01-06-2013 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1206 by crashfrog
01-04-2013 10:19 PM


Re: Statistical Blindness
...we believe that there's no compelling societal interest in merely shifting the mode of homicide from "firearm" to something else.
Do you think that having a knife gives you the same ability to inflict a mass-killing as a firearm?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1206 by crashfrog, posted 01-04-2013 10:19 PM crashfrog has not replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3806 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 1248 of 5179 (687024)
01-06-2013 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1216 by crashfrog
01-05-2013 9:28 AM


Re: Study: "Stand Your Ground" Laws Increase Homicide Rates
Percy, fully half of the participants on your side are advocating for a prohibition on the private ownership of firearms. Maybe you'd like to get with them and hammer out some of the confusion you're apparently experiencing.
Just to be clear, I am not advocating a prohibition on private ownership, but rather a set of regulations that would look similar to those implemented by the U.K. and Australia.
As far as guns making people safe, I would point to this paper. and this paperpaper.
If you'd like to see a more comprehensive list.
Edited by DBlevins, : No reason given.
Edited by DBlevins, : Added additional literature.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1216 by crashfrog, posted 01-05-2013 9:28 AM crashfrog has not replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3806 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


(5)
Message 1296 of 5179 (687306)
01-09-2013 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1289 by New Cat's Eye
01-09-2013 10:36 AM


On training
He was saying that cops get training and civilians don't, but civilians can get training if they want to. The fact that people aren't required to get training doesn't mean that they are unable to.
Cops and civilians do get training, but in order for the cop to be an effective and safe user of a gun they need to renew their training every 2 months or less. Being able to distinguish between a criminal and a law abiding citizen or fellow cop in a firefight requires constant training and so does being able to fire the gun at the target. Iirc, the average is 1 bullet out of 5 hitting it's target in a firefight for a trained cop.
The ability to react properly (mentally and physically) and safely fades away in at least 2 months, if not continued.
You seem to be in the mistaken impression that a civilian, with a concealed weapon permit, will be able to react as well as a cop that undergoes constant training.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1289 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-09-2013 10:36 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3806 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


(1)
Message 1863 of 5179 (691485)
02-22-2013 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1857 by Faith
02-22-2013 7:35 AM


Re: cheers and jeers
Could you not entertain the notion that the 'jeer' might be in response to what the 'jeerer' believes is a flawed argument. Jeers aren't just for showing disapproval for a lack of civility.
Not that it matters, but I very rarely 'jeer' anyone and never for a perceived lack of civility. If I do jeer or cheer something I have read, it is for my belief in the strength of the argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1857 by Faith, posted 02-22-2013 7:35 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1864 by Faith, posted 02-22-2013 5:33 PM DBlevins has not replied

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