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Author Topic:   Applying Ocam's Razor To BB vs Biblical ID Creationism and EvC
Taq
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Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 44 of 65 (663096)
05-21-2012 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
05-19-2012 3:36 PM


Ocams Razor renders the simplest explanation as the more likely explanation of phenomena, etc.
The simplest explanation being the one with the fewest unevidenced assumptions. ID/creationism fails this test being that it assumes the existence of God for which there is no evidence.
1. According to 1LoT, the Universe is infinite in time, including it's constant unchanging amount of energy.
No it doesn't. The first law states:
quote:
Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another.
http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/...rabee/biobk/biobookener1.html
Nowhere does the law state that energy is infinite, only that energy is conserved.
2. According to Genesis one and the Biblical record, the infinite Biblical god, Jehovah who resides in the cosmos of the Universe resides in an infinite time Universe, having infinite stable amount of energy, as per 1LoT, which eminates from him, ever changing form.
Jehovah is not evidenced, therefore it is sliced away by Occam's Razor.
3. As is most commonly (I say, commonly) observed, physically, chaos does not spontaniously progress into order by natural means void of ID. Barns do not emerge from forests to structures, books, void of ID. Chaotic iron ore does not emerge naturally into forged tools, etc
Yes, chaos does progress to order. In fact, order from chaos seems to be the rule, not the exception. Trees take elements from the environment and turn them into ordered systems, all without any intelligence involved. We also have evidence for barn builders and tool makers, and yet none for your universe maker.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2012 3:36 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 60 of 65 (663336)
05-23-2012 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Buzsaw
05-23-2012 7:34 AM


Re: O.R. Supportive To. Biblical ID Creationism
O.R. would say that if the Jews, occupying one of the tiniest nations on the planet, were dispersed over nineteen centuries into many nations, inter-mingling the populations of foreign nations of both hemispheres, they would neither retain their Jewish identity or, relatively suddenly as identifiable Jews, voluntarily migrate back from those nations into the same tiny little nation from which they had been dispersed.
How so, Buzz? Please explain.
So far you have completely mischaracterized what Occam's Razor is. You have completely mischaracterized what the first law of thermodynamics states. It appears that you are doing it again.
O.R. would say that predictions of prophets who lived centuries before the dispersion and over two milleniums before the regathering of the Jews were made, those predictions would fail. ,
How so, Buzz?
Conclusion: This failure of O.R. would be supportive (I say "supportive") to Biblical ID creationism. It would be supportive evidence of the credibility of the Biblical record.
How did Occam's Razor fail? Please explain.

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 Message 57 by Buzsaw, posted 05-23-2012 7:34 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 63 of 65 (663348)
05-23-2012 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by ringo
05-23-2012 12:34 PM


Re: O.R. Supportive To. Biblical ID Creationism
You seem to be trying to say that the simplest explanation for the survival of the Jewish people and the reestablishment of the Jewish state is that God did it.
It appears that Buzz's mistake is even worse than that. Buzz is confusing facts and explanations. OR applies to explanations, not the facts. The facts in this case are the historical facts of the Jewish nation over the last 2,000 years. OR does not apply to these facts. OR has nothing to do with these facts. They are simply facts. OR makes no predictions on whether a nation will stay intact or disappear, as Buzz is trying to suggest.

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 Message 61 by ringo, posted 05-23-2012 12:34 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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