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Author Topic:   The slickest con ever perpetrated on mankind
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1054 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 55 of 59 (663301)
05-23-2012 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Coyote
05-15-2012 10:07 PM


But the slickest con ever perpetrated on mankind was the one put forth by those shamans promising eternal life. Without a shred of evidence that they could deliver what they promised, the shamans made glowing promises of eternal life--if only people would do as they directed. Not surprisingly, this involved payments to the shamans. But what choice did the victims have? They desperately wanted what the shamans claimed to be able to deliver, and the shamans were the only game in town. They still are.
I don't think the evolution of the idea of an afterlife; nor of the idea of a clergy who can intercede for you, were ever intentional cons. The afterlife is simply trying to explain away what happens to our consciousness when people die, because we have difficulty conceiving, and sometimes a fear of, the idea that it could just stop. If you come from a non-materialist culture; as pretty much every culture once was, and you believe in concepts of a spirit, the afterlife is a natural progression.
Similarly, a clergy that can intervene is a natural evolution of the idea of the shaman class which, again, I doubt was ever an intentional con. Given that so much traditional shamanism from all over the world seems to involve the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I'm sure shamans really did believe they were contacting the spirit world. After all, ketamine and the like seem perfectly capable of making people in the 21st century believe they've found a secret way of communicating with extra-dimensional beings.
I think the issue is more that it's a system preadapted for a con, to use an evolutionary term. It wasn't set up as such, it's just remarkably easy for a cynical scammer to take advantage of the situation, and that's how you get medieval popes and televangelists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Coyote, posted 05-15-2012 10:07 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 05-23-2012 12:22 PM caffeine has replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1054 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 57 of 59 (663386)
05-24-2012 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by ringo
05-23-2012 12:22 PM


My guess is that some of the first shamans were guys with a gimpy leg (or a lazy streak) who couldn't (or didn't want to) go out hunting. They said, "Hey, you know what? You guys go out hunting and I'll stay here in the nice warm cave. No, wait, hear me out. I'll stay here in the nice warm cave and I'll talk to the gods for you. I'll ask them to send some nice juicy mammoths in your direction. They're bound to feel sorry for me on account of my bad leg (bad back) and all."
The belief in spirits and/or an afterlife may have been genuine but the idea of intercession strikes me as a con from day one.
I think you're projecting too much 21st century mentalities and ideas onto other people, without looking at the actual practice of shamanism.
Not all shamans are allowed to sit on their arses in camp while the other men go off hunting. In some modern shamanistic societies, the shaman has to take part in hunting and gathering the same as everybody else. This is particularly true in resource poor areas like the Canadian arctic, for obvious reasons. You can make an argument that they get increased status and maybe some extra resources, but the idea that they can just sit and leech off everybody is certainly not universal, and I don't think we can assume it's the origin.
Secondly, shamanism isn't always that easy. The rituals involved in initiation, and in attaining a trance state, often involve self-mutilation, enforced isolation and starvation. Starving yourself into a delirious state until you start hallucinating 'the spirit world' does not seem like the easiest way of tricking yourself to a share of the hunt.
Not all shamans are, or were, men. Some of the earliest archaeological evidence of shamans in Europe and the Middle East suggests they were more likely to be women, so skipping out of the hunt doesn't seem relevant. You could argue they were avoiding other work, I suppose, but I don't really see it as a fair assumption.
A settled priesthood who get paid from other people's work without seeming to do very much seems to have evolved out of people who had to work, and who did often unpleasant things to themselves to intercede with the spirit world. It seems much more likely to me that they genuinely believed in what they were doing than that it was all an elaborate con of dubious benefit to themselves. Perhaps, once settled societies started producing enough surplus to support a priestly class, we can start talking about cons, but even there it doesn't seem necessary. The priesthood can still be seen as a natural progression to a parasitic class, without anyone ever planning it this way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 05-23-2012 12:22 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by ringo, posted 05-25-2012 12:31 PM caffeine has not replied

  
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