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Author Topic:   Anyone ever heard of Rebecca Watson?
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 1 of 86 (639149)
10-28-2011 12:12 PM


Every so often I scan through the PZ Myers Phyrangula blog, and earlier today I came across this this entry asking readers to send Rebecca Watson a note of support:
Rebecca Watson is founder of Skepchick, a blog promoting science and reason by women, and a regular member of the weekly panel on The Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast.
So why does Rebecca Watson need a note of support? I began reading the comments and had no hint of the answer until message 20. It mentioned "elevator guy," and then I immediately knew what it was.
I've only seen one video of Rebecca Watson, and I came across it by accident. It's one of her weekly video blogs, and at one point she describes being propositioned late at night on an elevator while returning to her room after a late night of partying during a conference (maybe DragonCon, maybe The Amazing Meeting, I don't know). She doesn't come across well, here's a link, scroll forward to 4:30: Rebecca Watson and the Elevator Incident.
In this video she rakes a guy over the coals for saying to her on the elevator, "Don't take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting and I would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee."
That was back in June, and I didn't think any more about it until I saw PZ Myer's blog. Apparently the comments have blown up in Rebecca Watson's face. I wasn't following this, of course, so I can only guess that in responding to the criticism that Watson only dug herself deeper and deeper. Apparently even Richard Dawkins chimed in at one point (Page not found | ScienceBlogs). Wikipedia has a section describing the Elevator Incident, and it has this to say:
Wikipedia writes:
In June 2011 Watson posted a video in which, among other things, she described an experience at a skeptical conference, concerning an approach by a man in an elevator, who invited her to his room for coffee and a conversation. She stated "I don't know how else to explain how this makes me very uncomfortable, but I'll just sort of lay it out: I was a single woman in a foreign country in a hotel elevator with you, just you, and Idon't invite me back to your hotel room right after I finish talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner." Her statement sparked a controversy among the skeptic community. Her critics said she was over-reacting to a trivial incident, most notably Richard Dawkins, who wrote a satirical letter to an imaginary Muslim woman, sarcastically contrasting her plight to Rebecca's complaint. This in turn caused him to be greatly criticized by those supporting her on the issue, including several famous figures in the community. Watson announced that she would not buy or endorse Dawkins's books and lectures in the future.
So that's all the information I have.
It always seemed to me that Rebecca Watson had a tough skin, so I'm surprised she's being perceived as needing notes of support. Anyone been following this and know what's going on?
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Larni, posted 10-28-2011 12:26 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 1:01 PM Percy has replied
 Message 6 by Omnivorous, posted 10-28-2011 1:12 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 10-28-2011 1:33 PM Percy has replied
 Message 25 by Nuggin, posted 10-29-2011 9:54 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 52 by Stile, posted 11-07-2012 1:33 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 7 of 86 (639159)
10-28-2011 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by crashfrog
10-28-2011 1:01 PM


crashfrog writes:
Remember when they hacked the site for a month because I expressed an opinion on another website that women shouldn't be raped?
Oh, gee, let me think. You're maybe referring to the month from hell? Of course on the plus side it forced me to make the site secure. Sometime later Lulzsec tried to break in but failed, so they moved on to other less interesting sites like Nintendo and Sony, so I have you to thank for that.
Whether elevator guy was right or wrong, how did this blow up instead of blow over?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 1:01 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 1:48 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 13 of 86 (639171)
10-28-2011 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Modulous
10-28-2011 1:33 PM


I Am Elevator Guy
Thanks for all the information - that was great!
Modulous writes:
She doesn't come across well
Why not?
Good question. I'm not sure I can put it into words, but I recall as I watched the video (which was immediately after it was posted and before I was aware of any controversy) being taken aback and thinking, "Well, isn't *she* full of assumptions."
Did anyone else see the elevator guy video before the controversy? I have a feeling that reading about the controversy before viewing the video may be a spoiler that affects the way you perceive the comments.
So about my controversial title: I Am Elevator Guy. It goes like this. I am an incredibly shy and naive guy who when he sees a girl who looks to him like the most beautiful and wonderful girl in the world who he may never see again if he doesn't speak up now can work up his courage and speak (hasn't happened since the winter of 1982, by the way). If I've worked up the courage to talk you can be pretty sure the girl is already on a pedestal. Who knows what awful conversation opener I might come up with, but come up with one I will. Rebecca's assumption that elevator guy's invitation was automatically low and crass put me off.
But I'm still surprised that it blew up the way it did. The comment was mostly innocuous and I honestly haven't thought about that video until reading PZ Myers blog today.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 10-28-2011 1:33 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

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 Message 15 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 2:43 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 14 of 86 (639174)
10-28-2011 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by crashfrog
10-28-2011 1:48 PM


crashfrog writes:
What, no shit? Lulzsec tried to get in? I'm impressed.
Uh, there was a smiley at the end of that sentence. We're even now, I misinterpreted your comment about why my rating isn't pegged at 10.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 1:48 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 17 of 86 (639178)
10-28-2011 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Rahvin
10-28-2011 2:52 PM


Re: I Am Elevator Guy
Interesting. You and Crash I think have the opposite problem from guys like me who are skinny and nerdy looking. You guys cause fear, we cause amusement or aren't even noticed.
But even though I had a negative reaction to Rebecca Watson's description of the elevator incident, it wasn't guys like me trashing her on the Internet. I can't make sense out of that.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Rahvin, posted 10-28-2011 2:52 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Rahvin, posted 10-28-2011 3:11 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 3:51 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 22 of 86 (639198)
10-28-2011 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by crashfrog
10-28-2011 3:51 PM


Re: I Am Elevator Guy
crashfrog writes:
No, I'm pretty skinny and nerdy looking (or was, not too long ago).
Oh, okay. I had a diffferent impression because of what you said in your Message 365 in the Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Gary Taubes thread:
I'm a big fat fuck...
It wasn't qualified, so I assumed it was a long term condition.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 3:51 PM crashfrog has replied

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 Message 23 by crashfrog, posted 10-28-2011 6:32 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 24 of 86 (639255)
10-29-2011 1:14 PM


Wait a minute, I'm finally putting 2 and 2 together...
Didn't RW just get married in 2009?
And in the elevator incident video the backdrop is full of unpacked boxes, and she says she just moved.
And Wikipedia said she has separated from her husband and is seeking a divorce.
So when she made that video she was just recently separated.
Geez, talk about piling on someone when they're down!
--Percy

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 66 of 86 (678425)
11-07-2012 8:23 PM


My 2
I'm actually kind of sick of the perpetually offended. If Rebecca's perception is that she is often beset by misbehaving men, to an extent far out of proportion to the actual number of misbehaving men, then she might want to consider looking within herself.
But the perpetually offended don't tend to do that.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by roxrkool, posted 11-07-2012 9:51 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 69 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2012 7:29 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 81 of 86 (679254)
11-13-2012 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by kofh2u
11-13-2012 1:23 AM


Re: My 2
Gee, more misogyny! Why am I not surprised.
Welfare programs providing monetary incentives to families with absent fathers were ill-conceived and a social disaster, but these programs no longer exist. Your chart is from 1992, well before they were eliminated by the Clinton administration. Since the early 1990's teen crime rates have fallen dramatically. This is common knowledge, it's been going on for years, and Googling about I had no trouble finding a news article about it from earlier this year:
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by kofh2u, posted 11-13-2012 1:23 AM kofh2u has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 85 of 86 (680039)
11-17-2012 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by roxrkool
11-16-2012 11:11 PM


Re: My 2
roxrkool writes:
You know what my partying in Vegas constituted? Eating great food, drinking good wine, and hanging with my husband of 20 years and 11 year old son.
I may have lost track of where you're coming from, but I don't understand why a defense against Kofh2u's arguments needs partying to be wholesome and innocent. Or were you just trying to be clear about yourself personally?
Anyway, what form would the argument against the politics of victimhood take coming from someone who *was* (to use Kofh2u's term) a harlot? If we remove the argument from being about anyone who actually exists like yourself or Rebecca Watson and make it merely hypothetical, then what rights to complain about being hit on in an elevator does someone have who, to make the example a little extreme, sleeps around, smokes grass and has in the past used cocaine. In other words, does lifestyle affect what rights one has? Put another way in somewhat archaic terms, what right does someone who is definitely not a lady have to be treated like a lady?
Or to flip the question, what does it say about men who ask women behaving somewhat flamboyantly or seductively up to their rooms for nightcaps but women behaving demurely out for coffee?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by roxrkool, posted 11-16-2012 11:11 PM roxrkool has not replied

  
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