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Author | Topic: Let's face it... | |||||||||||||||||||
joz Inactive Member |
quote: Oh that was nice of him. Im sure that's a huge consolation to the children born with aids "heh I may be well and truly buggered but at least I know that God punished my parents for adultery..." Come to mention it what about the faithful spouse who contracts something nasty because their partner strayed? They didnt do any wrong but they get punished anyway....Hmmmmm... Mate your talking out of your arse, two of the qualities you religious buggers claim for the big fella are Omnicogniscience (all knowing) and omnibenevolence (all caring). Im sure you see the logical problem with insisting that such a God createdSTDs...... Oh and I had plenty of sex before I met my wife and I never even got a sniffle so tell your (omnipotent) God he missed next time you talk to him..... Oh and make use of the spell checker before posting please....
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: Oh and Given that: a)My relationship with my wife started with a drunken one night stand. b)3 years later we are happily married your assertion that "whole point of a relationship looses it's meaning." can presumably be discarded unless it is for the special case where the whole relationship is based on sexual tension anyway..... In which case having sex early in a relationship is a good thing as it will expose purely physical attractions for what they are....
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: Wow that's nice of you.
quote: Im sorry but arguing that an unborn child has already sinned and deserves to be born with aids isnt terribly convincing as evidence of an omnibenevolent big fella....
quote: I was just pointing out the availability of a spell checker. I hope you asked Santa for some thicker skin.....
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: LOL I quite agree it would only possibly benefit your very distant descendants...
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: I once read a book by Peter Ustinov called the old man and mr smith it is about God and the devil meeting up on earth to see how things are going... They discuss many things and in the course of the conversation mr smith asks why the old man pushed him out of heaven... The old mans answer is that he needed something to be compared with in order to be seen as perfectly good, besides he adds you were getting bored anyway....
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: Ok: a)Is there a set of internally consistent rules to follow in order to avoid sinning? b)If there is I suggest it is possible to follow the rules and not sin. c)If this is the case I stipulate that if there is free will we are not sinners until we ourselves have sinned. d)In which case an unborn child is not a sinner or there is no free will. So which is it to be original sin or free will? One of them needs to be voted off the island....
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: That is besides the point you cannot have both original sin and free will, One claims you will sin as a matter of course, the other that you determine your own actions.... So which is it to be free will of original sin you cant have both.....
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: But free will allows that a mans actions are not predetermined it is therefore feasible that a man acting of his own free will would not sin. You seem to be claiming that original sin implys that man must sin therefore renouncing the self determination imbued by free will..... I ask again do you believe in free will or original sin for the two are mutually exclusive as you present them.... On another note your jumping to the moon analogy is faulty in that man has jumped to the moon (it took a long time, a lot of money and even more skull sweat but NASA did it)..... [This message has been edited by joz, 12-12-2001]
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: And I assert that in any system where the plenun of choices is restricted there is no free will.....
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: But by your own logic if original sin holds true man cannot ever make an honest attempt at living free from sin so their free will is constrained and therefore a misnomer.... I can make an honest effort to discover surgical, genetic manipulation techniques to achieve the end of growing to be 20 ft tall... I may fail in both cases the difference is that there is a possible solution that involves the achievement of my aims in the second case, a solution that is missing assuming your original sin constraint of free will....
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: Or if everyone got tested and practiced safe sex stds would die out quickly as well.... Are you trying to argue that a model for societies behavior should be morally judged on the basis of its ability to combat STDs?
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: That's entirely subjective pal Im sure that Im not the only one who would not accept a society where there was no premarital sex as perfect....
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: Will you please try to understand I am not trying to disprove God I was merely pointing out the logical inconsistency in a loving God creating STDs which afflict not only those who indulge in promiscuous behavior... I was reading an article on the BBC news page today apparently 25% of pregnant women in South Africa are HIV positive and 30% of these will have children who contract HIV in utero....Nice one Redstangs God......
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: The other point I have been trying to make is that the whole concept of free will is inadmissible if God punishes people before they use that free will to choose to sin. In effect predetermining that they will sin before they make their free will choice not to....
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joz Inactive Member |
quote: Im sorry but you have not... You have to prove that it is theoretically impossible for man not to sin... Otherwise your concept of original sin is meaningless... But if you prove original sin in that way you have in effect predestined every human to ever live to sin therefore they have no free will not to sin therefore it is immoral for God to punish them if they have no choice....
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