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Author
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Topic: Existence
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Re: Renshaw vs relativity
Hi fear,
fearandloathing writes: you are wrong. They use GR/SR which includes Lorentzian equations concerning velocity. It wouldn't be the first time. Doesn't Gr require each clock to have it's own reference frame? The clocks in the GPS satellites have to be in sync for my GPS to work. Therefore the GPS synchronization has to be done in the Inertial frame of the earthbound clock using constancy of c. As the Earth is rotating, and the Sagnac effect is to large for the GPS and the clocks to be synchronized in the rotating frame. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 193 by NoNukes, posted 05-17-2011 8:08 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 196 of 1229 (615834)
05-17-2011 11:31 AM
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Reply to: Message 191 by crashfrog
05-16-2011 7:09 PM
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Re: Time
Hi crash,
crashfrog writes: And it's already been explained to you what time is; it's a characteristic of spacetime. If there is only spacetime how can time be a characteristic of itself? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 191 by crashfrog, posted 05-16-2011 7:09 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Re: Time
Hi hooah,
hooah writes: What do you mean? Do you know what is meant by time dilation? It's not like dilated pupils or a woman dilating during labor. It's a wee bit different. Time dilation is the act of time expanding. Isn't that what happens durning labor.
hooah writes: It's a basic part of relativity, ICANT. Then why don't all scientist agree? You don't mind if I wait until the twin paradox thought experiment is conducted in a spacecraft, before I jump on board do you? You can believe anything you desire to believe I am just a little skeptical.
hooah writes: These are hardly constituted as my "beliefs", ICANT. They are facts that have the maths to back them up. They have been proven to be factual. Thought experiments do not become facts until the experiment is actually conducted with positive results. So until the experiments are run you are taking the thought experiments on faith that it will be true when the experiment is finally run. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 198 of 1229 (615837)
05-17-2011 12:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 187 by frako
05-16-2011 3:39 PM
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Re: Time
Hi frako,
frako writes: There is a problem with that because it is impossible for exsistance to reach our point in this eternity, because it has to pass an infinite number of points to get to us and it is impossible to do so. Why is it impossible? In eternity thare is no past and no future there is only now. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 187 by frako, posted 05-16-2011 3:39 PM | | frako has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 203 by frako, posted 05-17-2011 4:20 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Re: Time
Hi fear,
fearandloathing writes: Your speed is a little off if you are referring to speed of our orbit, its 66,622.1765 mph. I was refering to the suns trip around the Milky Way while we are traveling around the sun. That speed is 140 mps which is 504,000 mph.
fearandloathing writes: My point is all of these are correct, it all is relative to the observer and what he uses as a reference point., If we can agree on this then we can maybe discuss how this simple truth can also relate to time. Why is it all relative to an observer? Are you telling me that if there was no observer everything would be standing still? I believe they would keep on doing their thing whether there was an observer or not. Just as eternal existence has duration doing its thing whether man had ever come up with a concept whereby that duration could be measured or not. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 202 of 1229 (615852)
05-17-2011 3:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 182 by Straggler
05-16-2011 8:35 AM
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Re: Time
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes: ICANT writes: Straggler writes: So we have two clocks. One constructed in, and residing in, Bolder. One constructed in, and residing in, Greenwich. Both of them are constructed identically to be accurate to within one second every 3.7 billion years. But the two clocks "tick" at different rates.
Yes they tick different rates because of the effect of the gravatational fields they reside in. OK. So lets say that I have the readout from each of these clocks side by side on the computer screen in front of me. I must correct myself as I was not taking into consideration that the clocks built in different places would be calibrated to the international agreed tick rate of 9,192,631,770 ticks per second. So they would both tick the same until moved out of their IFR. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 182 by Straggler, posted 05-16-2011 8:35 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Re: Time
Hi hooah,
hooah writes: Who told you this? Where do you get your definitions? That "definition" seems rather basic......let alone wrong. In Geometry:
quote:
Dilation is a similarity transformation in which a figure is enlarged or reduced using a scale factor ’ 0, without altering the center.
Source American Heritage Dictionary: dilation
quote:
1.The act of expanding or the state of being expanded.
Source You got something else spit it out. Question: How do you do any of these things to time unless you have an object? Concepts don't dilate.
hooah writes: You crack me up, ICANT. The religious man telling the Atheist he is a skeptic. Irony at it's finest. I am more skeptical about some of the things so-called religious people put forth.
hooah writes: What IS the subject of discussion (time being relative) has the maths to back it up and has been proven factual. So why are there disagreements about time dilation? Where is the concensus? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 207 of 1229 (615859)
05-17-2011 4:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 203 by frako
05-17-2011 4:20 PM
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Re: Time
Hi frako,
frako writes: Well there is a past you know what you did 5 minutes ago and there is a future something will happen 5 minutes from now. You remember what you did or what happened but that is only a memory. Tomorrow never comes as it is always today when it gets here. There is no past or future there is only now which is continual motion.
frako writes: whiteout the flow of time everything would be stationary and nothing would happen ever. Nothing is motionless. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 203 by frako, posted 05-17-2011 4:20 PM | | frako has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 209 of 1229 (615861)
05-17-2011 5:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 206 by frako
05-17-2011 4:48 PM
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Re: Time
Hi frako,
frako writes: Who besides you disagrees with time dilation? quote:
Numerous contemporaries and others including, Bruno Betotti, Robert H. Dicke, Edmund Whittaker, Harald Nordenson, G.H.Keswani, Herbert Dingle, Alfred O'Rahilly, Leon Broullouin, Louis Essen, Hendrik Lorentz, G. Burniston Brown, F. Gonzalez-Gascon, Artemio Gonzalez-Lopez, S. Marino, A.A.Logunov, P. Lenard, Tullio Levi-Civita, M.A. Mestvirishvili, P.W. Bridgeman, H.K.Wimmel, N.T.Bishop, Richard Tolman, David Bohm, Mendel Sachs, D.F.Lawden, Dewey Larson, George Gamow and Ian Stewart all questioned the mathematical basis, physical theories and lack of experiments on which Einstein based both his General and Special Theory of Relativity. Pari Spolter, in her book "Gravitational Force of the Sun" takes a mathematically forensic look at General Relativity and its illegitimate son, Special Relativity and exposes as fraudulent what many have claimed to be one of the greatest mathematical achievements of all time.
These are a few who disagreed with 'God' Einstein. So I am not alone when I question the so-called theories of Einstein. I could find more but his contemporaries seemed best. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 206 by frako, posted 05-17-2011 4:48 PM | | frako has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 217 by NoNukes, posted 05-17-2011 10:49 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 210 of 1229 (615862)
05-17-2011 5:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 208 by frako
05-17-2011 5:04 PM
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Re: Time
Hi frako,
frako writes: So whats midnight tomorrow or today A statement of the concept of time invented by man to measure duration in eternal existence.
frako writes: So from where did now move and to where is it going. From now to now. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 208 by frako, posted 05-17-2011 5:04 PM | | frako has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 211 of 1229 (615863)
05-17-2011 5:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 204 by Straggler
05-17-2011 4:22 PM
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Re: Time
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes: So if I, sitting at my desk, want to very very precisely measure how long something takes which clock should I use and why? The one that was created in the IFR where you are and the event takes place. If it was created in a different frame and brought to the event the gravatational field would be different and thus the tick rate would be different. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 204 by Straggler, posted 05-17-2011 4:22 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Re: Time
Hi fear,
fearand loathing writes: but please do go to here to see about the gps system and relativity, these are people who build the clocks. Did you read the article? If so what page refers to the timing of the clock or adjustments made to account for any of the things we have been talking about? The article is about GPS receivers you go in the store and buy and their specifications. Now if you can find where they discuss the effects gravity has on the clocks in the satellites point it out as I could not find it. Do you believe everything someone tells you? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 232 of 1229 (616101)
05-19-2011 1:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 219 by Jaderis
05-18-2011 4:34 AM
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Re: Existence=?????
Hi Jaderis,
Jaderis writes: What do you propose for the "eternal existence of the existence?" How does it happen that something comes from nothing? If some existence caused the existence of our existence then what caused that existence? And what caused that existence....... It does not matter what I call that existence it is responsible for everything that exists today. I call that existence the Existing One as He claims. There are those that call it branes but they really had to exist somewhere, and Hawking created imaginary time in which his and Hartley's instanton could pop into existence and create our universe. So, yes that is the question. But: Either there is eternal existence, OR Existence began to exist. If existence had a beginning to exist that means it had to begin to exist from non-existence. So I will ask you: Is there eternal existence? OR Did existence begin to exist? If the latter could you please explain how it began to exist from non-existence. It is a fact there is existence as we exist, or if we are even brains in a jar somebody or something is controling the experiment. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 219 by Jaderis, posted 05-18-2011 4:34 AM | | Jaderis has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 233 of 1229 (616103)
05-19-2011 2:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 212 by Straggler
05-17-2011 5:48 PM
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Re: Time
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes: So you are saying that the only way to accurately measure the duration of a local event is with a local clock. Is that right? Not really as I believe duration is constant. The effects of gravity on the timepiece would be very small thus just about any accurate clock would give a pretty accurate time for an event on earth. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 212 by Straggler, posted 05-17-2011 5:48 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.7
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Message 234 of 1229 (616104)
05-19-2011 2:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 213 by AZPaul3
05-17-2011 5:53 PM
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Re: Time
Hi Paul,
AZPaul3 writes: Because in a cesium cascade clock the "tick rate" is not adjustable. Then how is the adjustment made to the clocks that is placed in orbit to match the earthbound clock?
AZPaul3 writes: Wherever there is a properly tuned and functioning cesium clock, So if the clock can not be adjusted how can it be properly tuned?
AZPaul3 writes: ICANT, what the experiments with the clocks show, what your own sources have shown, is that time is relative between frames of reference What has been shown is that the satellite clocks have to be adjusted to an offset that matches the earthbound clocks or the GPS system will not work. It really does not make any difference what causes the difference in the measured duration. They have to match. God Bless, Edited by ICANT, : correct recipent
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 213 by AZPaul3, posted 05-17-2011 5:53 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
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