Peanut Gallery

I didn't ask you to. Would you accept the two as the only possible sources: Imagination and actual experience.Would you?- Oni

These other sources would have to be able to speak, yes? They would have to be able to convey the information to you, yes?Are you saying that there is another species that has this ability on earth?If not, then it is human ONLY.And since it is human only, there are only two possible ways a human can know of supernatural beings: they have either made it up using their imagination, or, they actually experience it.If you are saying there is a 3rd way, then please provide it, because now I'm curious.If you have no 3rd way, then man up and answer my question, as I did yours.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

With us, dude. With humans. That's fine. I just wanted to know if you only saw two possible choices, as I do. I didn't think there were more.So we have narrowed it down to, some can be imagined(you seem to agree that humans can imagine supernatural beings), and some might be experienced, but you can't know which is which.Lets then break that down:1) The "imagined" aspect of this equations is a known fact; humans can imagine supernatural beings. You have agreed to this. I think.2) The "experienced" aspect of this equation is the unknown factor; it is not known if humans can actually experience supernatural beings. Also, this aspect of the equation requires that the supernatural actually exists and can be experienced.In the 1st, no evidence is required, because it is a known factor.The 2nd however, requires two essential pieces of evidence - starting with first, the evidence for supernatural beings, and second, the evidence that humans can actually experience them.Would you agree with my assessment up to this point?- Oni

Yeah, my mom experienced it. So it remains that there are only two possible sources, either humans imagine it, or they experience it.If they convey the information to others, that doesn't change that. The good thing is, no one has claimed that. Show the evidence that they don't exist? Think about that.- Oni

The point is that the person conveying that info to you either imagined it or actually experienced it.If my mom told you about the supernatural, you would conclude she either experienced it for real or imagined it.What I'm asking for is, could she know it any other way other than imagined or experienced it? Show me that quote. I meant, how can I show you evidence for something that doesn't exist?- Oni

So then the only known source is the human imagination?- Oni

Who either experienced it for real or imagined it for fake. Yeah, experience, imagined, both, whatever. But just those two. Yet you can't show me a third source? They're debating on whether it is a theory or not. It's just the start of the theory.That is not the same as making the absolute statement that supernatural things don't exist. But we do, there is evidence that the human imagination can come up with that stuff. That is in fact the only known source. It's a pretty good theory. Certainly not the end of the question though. The theory that that is all that is known is not, which is the actual theory. Agreed. So then the only source for the supernatural would remain the imagination, because if you can experience it (which is the only other source) it is not supernatural.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

But still a combination of the two. So then that person imagined it or experienced it. And if they heard it, then the person that told them either imagined it or experienced it. And so on.It remains just two. Even when combined, it is just two. Correct. But it is a starting point, from which, other sources can be introduced. Up till now, the only other has been "experience." Something that cannot be evidenced objectively.So it then becomes "all" tentitively untill objective evidence of some other source is produced. So as a scientific theory it holds up. End of argument.Why is this being dragged out further?- Oni

Sure it is, you just need to show how the human imagination can't come up with supernatural beings. It is already accepted that it can, even by RAZD. So show that it can't and it is falsified. You haven't seen evidence that the human imagination can come up with supernatural beings? C'mon, dude.- Oni

Wud up xong, I did see the example, but it was a terrible example. Humans can see the hole, can't they? Yup, and the evidence after analysis is that there are only two possible ways: either human's imagined it, or, human's can experience it subjectively.The first is known to be a fact, the second is the unknown. Can humans experience it? Is there actually something to experience?We don't know.So...the only known source, tentitively, is the imagination.- Oni

Don't care, the point is that if you do it would be falsified. So it is falsifiable. As we have already agreed, it is the only evidence.- Oni

You are correct to ask.RAZD has admitted there are only two possible conclusions: either it is imagined, or humans can experience it.The imagined part is common sense; humans can imagine things, supernatural things, any thing.The experienced part however not only requires that a human can actually experience the supernatural being - BUT - that the supernatural being actually exists. Obviously there needs to be proof that there is something there to experience in the first place.So it starts with the question you are asking first: Is there evidence for the supernatural?If the answer is no, then who cares about the rest of this crap.If there is evidence for it, then it can follow that humans may be able to experience it. But until the supernatural is evidenced, nothing can be concluded about whether or not humans can experience them.The imagination as the only source is the only one objectively evidenced.You are totally right to call what he is doing, silly debating tricks.- Oni

Your bro has admitted to only two possible sources: the imagination of a human, or the experience of a human.To experience, there needs to be something there to experience. Is there proof that there is something there to experience? No.So that only leaves our other source alone as the only evidenced one.- Oni

It's not this fucking hard fellas.Am I the orignial source of the Jesus story? No. Of course I heard about it. That is logical, but not my point at all.Who ever the fuck originally created the Jesus story (for sake of argument, lets say the 4 dudes that wrote the gospels) they either made that shit up, or, actually experienced Jesus in the real. There are no other possiblities. It's so fucking simple that I'm suprised that we can't move past it. It's not even my main point.- Oni

What evidence RAZD? The human imagination can imagine supernatural beings.There is also the claim that it can experience supernatural beings.The first is a fact; we already know it can do that. The second is not a fact; we don't know if it actually can experience the supernatural PLUS we don't know if the supernatural actually exists to be experienced.The imagination remains the only KNOWN source. You gave me the Yucatan example, which was a poor example because you can see the hole and know something happened. Why? Because if you couldn't SEE it in the real and now, then no one would have known there was anything to investigate.So it is directly experienced, as in, we can see it. I didn't. You and I narrowed it down to either human imagination or human experience - remember, we are discussing supernatural beings.I eliminate the experience because it is untestable, and unknowable. So we remain with only one KNOWN source: the imagination.- Oni