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Author | Topic: Religion and IQ | |||||||||||||||||||||||
dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Incredibly ugly, indeed. It would appear that the Internet is the ultimate expression of that quote attributed to the Nazi propaganda minister, Paul Josef Goebbels (sollte das doch nicht als "Gbbels" ausgeschrieben werden?), that repeating a lie enough times makes it true (the creationists certainly are practicing it, as are many other fringe groups).
In order to properly evaluate the results of IQ tests (speaking as a non-professional), many factors have to be taken into account, including differing characteristics of the different groups being compared and whatever biases may exist in the tests. I think that IQ tests can evaluate the cognitive capabilities of individuals within a particular group, but we need to be careful when comparing different groups. For that matter, what effect has signing had on Koko's intelligence ratings? Having learned other human languages, I've personally experienced thinking in other languages at a pre-verbal level, and pre-verbal German is different from pre-verbal English -- I've nearly bitten my own tongue having worked out a practical construction problem in pre-verbal German and then trying to offer the solution in English. There is a conceit among language students that languages structure thought and I subjectively feel that I have experienced that personally. Koko's sign language training has enabled her to take IQ tests, but have they also influenced the results of those tests?
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
What I was taught was that IQ tests best test the ability to take IQ tests. Not only do IQ tests contain cultural biases, but also species biases. Hanabi-ko ("Fire Flower Girl", AKA "Fireworks Girl", because she was acquired on 04 July), AKA "Koko", the signing gorilla cover-girl for National Geographic, was given a number of human IQ tests and was scored at 85 and 95. The lower scores were attributed to species bias, such questions as where you would go when it starts to rain; two of the choices were a tree and a house, so as a gorilla she naturally chose the tree whereas a human child would have chosen the house. Haha lol you cant compare ape minds with ours they evolved differently for example it is frustratingly hard to teach an ape how to count they dont get the just ad one tough their minds are way better then ours at remembering what was where. Example they thought an ape how to count and when the ape learned that they blacked out the randomized numbers on a screen after it pressed the first one astonishingly the ape pretty much did not care she pressed the numbers accordingly in no time while you and i would have a problem after the first 3 numbers.
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
I always have trouble with the one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-others questions. hehe well usually one is rally different the others are slightly different. Tough the above is only pattern recognition simple small triangle larger triangle the largest trianglesmall ball larger ball the largest ball small square larger square ????? The same principle applys to the word, or letter puzzles all you have to do is find a pattern and predict the outcome from this pattern for the thing in question. Like say you have
The anwser is TDC both above have the last 2 letters and the first so the 3d should be the same. Edited by frako, : No reason given.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.5 |
dwise1 writes: There is a conceit among language students that languages structure thought and I subjectively feel that I have experienced that personally. Koko's sign language training has enabled her to take IQ tests, but have they also influenced the results of those tests? Given the dramatic effect that bilingualism has on the human brain, I cannot but think that Koko's test results--and her brain structure and function--were influenced by the learning of sign language. Denser gray matter in the left hemisphere, and significantly increased neural activity in the right hemisphere when toggling between languages, distinguish the bilingual brain on fMRI scans so clearly it is considered a signature. From the Society for Neuroscience web site:
quote: I'd love to see fMRI scans of Koko's brain while she toggles between listening and signing with humans and interacting with her own species. I know there's a balance, I see it when I swing past. -J. Mellencamp Real things always push back.-William James
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.5 |
frako writes: Haha lol you cant compare ape minds with ours Haha lol you're an ape I know there's a balance, I see it when I swing past. -J. Mellencamp Real things always push back.-William James
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Haha lol you're an ape NO NOO I was created in gods own image i am not......... wait thats right im an atheist and im an ape and proud to be one of the smartest animals on the planet.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3744 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Frako writes: ...and proud to be one of the smartest animals on the planet. quote:
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
Let's have all the messages somewhere in the vicinity of the topic theme.
No replies to this message. Adminnemooseus
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 9.2 |
IQ is a measurement of different skills it has nothing to do with knowledge (well a small bit one need to know how to read, and in some cases calculate). What's that got to do with what I said?
A better one to use would be Japan only 12% of them say religion is verry important and they have an average IQ of 105, While the US 60% of the people say that religion is verry important and you have an average IQ of 98/97 Again, I really don't think such country based comparisons mean anything at all.
Sure there are exceptions to any norm What are you trying to deduce from any link between religion and IQ? That people are only religious because they're dim? Well, this is simply not true - the existence of highly intelligent believers proves that.
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
What are you trying to deduce from any link between religion and IQ? That people are only religious because they're dim? Well, this is simply not true - the existence of highly intelligent believers proves that. No what i am saying is that dummer people tend to be more religius then smarter people there are exceptions to every norm tough the stats clearly show that there is a correlation. The only question is does religion make you dumb, or are you religius because you are dumb There are exceptions in some studies those with "little faith" did better then those with "no faith" and both did way better then those with "lots of faith". Edited by frako, : No reason given.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 9.2 |
The only question is does religion make you dumb, or are you religius because you are dumb Repeat after me: correlation is not causation.
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Repeat after me: correlation is not causation. So what would then be the cause that atheists score better on iq tests, and do better in school, that less religius people do better on SATs..... I can see only 2 plausible causes that would explain this corelation 1. "smarter" people tend to question the religious garbage more and more often become atheists. 2. Religious people get dummied down by their garbage and lack of thinking. Personally i think it is a little of both. Edited by frako, : No reason given.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3744 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Mr Jack writes:
Repeat after me: correlation does not mean unconnected. Repeat after me: correlation is not causation.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 9.2 |
I already answered this:
Intelligent people are more likely to question, and/or break, social norms; since the studies you reference regarding personal IQ/belief correlations were performed in countries which are predominantly religious, higher IQ correlates with belief. As I said earlier, I predict that if you perform such a study in China, you will find that the religious tend to have a higher IQ than the general population.
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frako Member (Idle past 336 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
As I said earlier, I predict that if you perform such a study in China, you will find that the religious tend to have a higher IQ than the general population. Though there is no evidence for this or at least i cannot find any study that would show this in china. So to me this statement is a wild guess, i can see the logic behind it tough i doubt "smarter" people would follow it. Why well we like to be sure of what we believe and religion is anything but sure in its facts. Edited by frako, : No reason given.
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