Religion and IQ

Frako, I take little stock in all of those examples you just posted. They remind me of EvC's rating system. No matter how intelligent the fundi, LoL on anything above a two or three. Most are ones and twos. Some evolutionists who don't show a lot of intelligence end up with high ratings which appear to be highly biased relative to ideology.The ideology of those compiling the stats likely factor in significantly relative to the data they use in the studies.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

ok lets test the hypothesis on this site pick a free iq test solve it (it does not matter if it is "accurate" because it is impossible to find an accurate test on line) then i will solve it and other fundies and atheists from this site can join in if they want and we will see what the stats say. you can even post what type of fundie, atheist... you are for better oversight. I know that there are to few of us to show an accurate trend tough a trend should or should not be seen.

I wasn't insinuating you at all, Frako. I consider you to be quite intelligent, though would think that regardless of your language, by now you would have learned some sentence structure, punctuation and capitalization skills in your messages.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

Read that out loud

As I've read this thread, its links and related materials found elsewhere, I've become very doubtful of your hypothesis.Also noted in that blog is that most professionals in the field consider avsab scores good approximations of IQ scores. My own aptitude tests--in school years and in the Army--closely match my IQ scores.As one blog commenter pointed out, the differences shown are smaller than the usual standard deviation of 10 points for IQ tests.Clearly, some religions' beliefs and practices inhibit full intellectual development, and some promote it. I don't see any persuasive evidence that religion per se has that effect.

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I know there's a balance, I see it when I swing past.
-J. Mellencamp

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Real things always push back.
-William James

This hypothesis could explain the Jewish Anomaly reported earlier.

I recall a study which suggested an evolutionary explanation. From the NY Times coverage of the study:

quote:

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A team of scientists at the University of Utah has proposed that the unusual pattern of genetic diseases seen among Jews of central or northern European origin, or Ashkenazim, is the result of natural selection for enhanced intellectual ability.

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I don't know if there have been any follow-up studies or analyses, but the comparison of the Ashkenazi cluster of genetic disorders and intelligence with the persistence of sickle cell anemia in the face of the strong selective pressure of malaria is fascinating.Here's the original news story: Researchers Say Intelligence and Diseases May Be Linked in Ashkenazic GenesAnd a good popular summary with links: On The Evolution Of Ashkenazi Jewish IntelligenceI haven't been able to find access to the study itself.I feel pretty confident of the cultural effect; the evolutionary explanation is intriquing and has a definite plausibility, but of course one speculative study is thin gruel.Edited by Omnivorous, : tpypo

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I know there's a balance, I see it when I swing past.
-J. Mellencamp

​

Real things always push back.
-William James

I'll give my personnal input on the subject. Because from my point of view the answer does seem quite straightforward.I don't want to seem like I'm bragging or anything, but since it is the subject of the thread I can say that by most standards I am an intelligent person. I have no doubt I could be part of groups such as Mensa, since I did the preliminary tests and was well within the range of requirements. And I'm also religious, and in fact would probably qualify in the most religious groupings in most studies.Not only that, but I am a university student in a science related field (Math and Physics). And from my experience, it is socially simply much harder for a person in an intellectual circle to be religious. It is much easier to be atheist, because it is simply easier surfing the wave rather then going against the current. It is the 'popular' worldview to adopt in today's intellectual cultureMuch like (someone correct me if I'm wrong) communism for some periods in the past century. No doubt that then, studies would have shown that communists were more intelligent.It is simply a combination of multiple sociological effects such as peer-pressure, willingness to be accepted, etc. etc.

Since most of the studies Frako mentioned earlier are pretty old, I thought I mention a newer one. From the abstract:

quote:

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Evidence is reviewed pointing to a negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief in the United States and Europe. It is shown that intelligence measured as psychometric g is negatively related to religious belief. We also examine whether this negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief is present between nations. We find that in a sample of 137 countries the correlation between national IQ and disbelief in God is 0.60.

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I also remember reading a study in a Dutch newspaper that they found that IQ in immigrants from Muslim countries and their children was structurally underestimated in tests due to cultural differences. These tests take, for example, knowledge of Snow White and what she stands for for granted, but this knowledge is less common in (non-Western) immigrant communities. Given that these communities tend to be (on average!) more religious, such a cultural difference might be easily misinterpreted as a religious difference.

I spent five years at a secular public university and never met an atheist.

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"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

I guess slevesque has never been to a Catholic University or college. I attended a Catholic college and there are a number of highly intelligent and well educated priests, sisters and brothers. I have my issues with Catholics, but they as a group have not restricted knowledge as the fundies do.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

I live in Quebec, which is probably the most secular part of North America.But how long ago was that ? Were you in a science related field ? Which state/country ?I don't know how it happens in the US, I am strictly talking from personnal experience. From my point of view, without even taking a look at any arguments, any evidence, I feel that the atheist position is more respected then theism (an even more than christianity), and so it is naturally socially easier to be one.This comes in part from the fact that atheists are much more vocal (particularly the new atheists) than any theist counterparts.You can see the difference when the subject actually comes in a conversation. When you say your atheist, no one questions you, it seems only natural. But when you say you are christian, instantly the questions and objections come. (Again, this is in very secular culture in a scientific environment)

I can't remember the subject of someones religion even coming up in my whole working life.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

The 1970s. Yes. Saskatchewan.Not exactly an intellectual hotbed, maybe, but I don't think I've ever met anybody who was a professing atheist. I find it safest to assume that everybody is a Christian.Edited by ringo, : Inserted, comma.

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"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This is exactly the same situation in the UK outside ethnic groups, both in academia and the wider community. Atheism requires no more apology, and probably less, than a nominal adherence to Christianity. Evangelical Christianity is growing, but it is still very much a minority and regarded with suspicion.