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Member (Idle past 4735 days) Posts: 283 From: Weed, California, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Common Ancestor? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
According to this it says there is a 30% difference between chimps and humans. Differences in chromosome 1,4,5,9,12,15,16,17,18. On chromosome 2 in humans are scattered among parts of several cats and rat chromosomes of these species. They mention the human/rodent ancestor now.
This website mentions many differences between human and chimp such as single base pair substitutions, amino acids changes, inserts/deletes diff, etc. We are closer to a rat that is 88% identical compared to a chimp 70% identical. Common ancestry is not very convincing to me at all.
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
If you go to this website you can plug in any combination between species and it will give you the date they split. Here are some examples:
Chimp/Human split Mitochondria 7.0 mya and nuclear 5.5 mya Mouse/rat/Human split mitochondria 106.2 mya and nuclear 95.3 mya Cat/Human split mitochondria 112.0 mya and nuclear 94.0 mya Horse/Human split mitochondria 112.0 mya and nuclear 94.0 mya Elephant/Human split mitochondria 101.6 mya and nuclear 100.2 mya Birds/Human split mitochondria 324.9 mya and nuclear 323.6 mya Does this make sense to anyone?
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
Its called the Time Tree : : Timescale of Life
The confusion is that all of these critters that split with humans is indicating that we once were able to breed with these species. What would we have looked like when we split? Is this indicating that we once were a chimp, mouse, horse,, elephant or a bird in the past?
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
You might as well state that we are all related by "name unknown" ancestrial breeding pair of a mouse/Human split because we at least can identify the mouse.
This tree also has the eukaryote/bacteria split to be 2622.2 mya. How could we have split from them when we are made of bacteria from a fusion between two different species of bacteria?
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
I have absolutely no clue what common ancestry means. I do not understand when the Time Tree says a different date for mitochondria that is not the same as the nuclear date. How can they evolve separately when they are part of the same organism?
Every time I think I have a clue as to what you are talking about, someone comments and I realize that I don't. Please explain in simple language how we are all connected in terms of time frames. Many of the dates I listed were before dinosaurs went extinct and I cannot imagine anything resembling today's critters could live along with them.
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
The Time Tree gives a split date for eukaryotes and bacteria of a nucleotide date of 2622.0 mya. Can someone please explain this to me?
What formula is used for the molecular clock model? Is carbon dating of bones used in the model?
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
rRNA is the location where the protein is made correct?
The protein meaning what it makes such as bone, tissue, organs, etc. right? So looking at a bunch of organisms to build a tree based on rRNA is still the same method that as used prior to genetics based on morphology likeness and differences.
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
What information is genes telling you? Some people here do not agree that genes actually carry information. My understanding is you are only able to see what the protein makes in the form of bone, tissue etc.
Considering that most species do share the same proteins because we share the same parts, wouldn't this make the connection between them harder to determine?
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
Then please explain what information do genes give you?
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
Science creates the dialect used in terminology and obviously have the power to change or alter the definition as they see fit whenever they want to.
The word "information" is constantly used to describe genetics by scientists so why is when a creationist (I hate that word) uses your own term is considered an idiot? Molecules based on shape and electron configuration that do what physics has assigned in terminology to explain the reaction is information. What else would you call it so you can discuss it. In reality words used to describe life and the definition we assign to it is only relevant to us. In reality words means nothing in the natural world, only in ours.So when I ask what information are the genes telling you does not mean that I expect DNA to be written in its content so you can tell us what it said it means. One aspect of evolution is based on evidence of fossil bones and claims genetics back its up. Then I assume that you know which genes is responsible for bone structure, how the body plan is constructed and what mechanism controls the growth of bone. This is a chemical reaction but in most people's mind it resembles what a chemist does in a lab combining chemicals to produce its results. In a body there is no chemist controlling the experiment so what mechanism prevents us from being a soup of chemicals all mixed together? Chemical reactions are regulated and kept from another chemical reaction that occurs in the body as well. These two separate chemical reactions cannot be combined otherwise it could not be specialized in its product. The sequence of nucleotides is said here to be all powerful so one assume it is this sequence that tells you exactly what product it produces. This is information because science has assigned information to it to describe it. Am I assuming too much of what science really knows so far?
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
If you are given samples of DNA from 4 different critters without telling what those critters were, how would you determine what they are?
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
Okay let me ask this another way. What do you need beside a DNA sample to identify 4 different critters in a blind study?
Nij writes in another topic: Mind is an abstract entity Strongbow writes here: Abstract information is the product of an intelligent agent If life does not equate to abstract then why does one think that humans are the exception? Either there is no intelligent factor involved or there is, you can't have it both ways. Edited by barbara, : No reason given.
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barbara Member (Idle past 4833 days) Posts: 167 Joined: |
Lions and tigers in nature live in different environments. Humans created an environment for these two to mate. You almost have leave out any species that we had a affect on to get an accurate picture of the past, but would there be any left to help solve it?
Humans have altered global landscapes which alter ecosystems which affect changes to occur in species. Everything we touch or come in contact with we create cause and affect in other life forms.
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