Not enough room in DNA

You know, it's not too late to switch sides. What you've just said to J. Patterson is just what I've been trying to say to you --- only it seems that you can only recognize the fundamental error he's making when it's not you who's making it.So much of the EvC debate seems to me to boil down to this: Wouldn't a smart God have made a universe that works? But no, not according to creationists. For example, according to creationists God wanted a universe with life in it. So (they tell me) he made a universe in which it was absolutely impossible for life to arise. And then he did a miracle to make life. First he made a bicycle with square wheels, and then he carried it to the place where he wanted it to go.Fred is awesome!

I would have answered like Dr Adequate or Subbie. I am honored that you have confused one of them with me. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

It was probably the similarity in avatars that confused him. What did you think of our new park?

Sounds like it is gorgeous. I haven't been to a Twins game in years because I hates the Metrodome. I know one of the umps that worked the game yesterday. He got to walk the field last fall and he says they did a great job from the standpoint of play and the fan experience. Hope to get to a few games this year. I am only 2 hours away.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

What Subbie said, your avatars confused me Edited by slevesque, : message from wrong account

You confused the Red Sox with the Minnesota Twins?This will probably mean war. I'll leave it up to you.For myself, I think that one of the best things about living in Las Vegas is that we have no professional sports teams whatsoever, which means that I don't even have to pretend to be interested in this stuff.

Nah. It's not like he confused us with the Yankees.I'm not as fond of the Bostons as I used to be, but I won' t take offense.

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas JeffersonFor we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack ObamaWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

THe NHL talked about putting a team in Las Vegas a couple years ago But seriously what are you doing as a living in Vegas ?(Ok this is a bit off-topic . I hope Jpatterson will come back to his own thread to continue the discussion)Edited by slevesque, : No reason given.

I wouldn't count on it, boss. It feels like a hit and run to me. But I suppose we ought to give him a fair opportunity to try to defend himself before we bury this too deep.

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas JeffersonFor we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack ObamaWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Nothing whatsoever. I'm here because I fell in love with a woman who lives here and married her. Until we get the paperwork sorted out, which is taking a lot longer than I thought it would, then it isn't even legal for me to get a job. Which I think is stupid, but there you go.

That's an interesting question, but put it the other way.Suppose that God had made a universe where life could arise by natural means, ie no need of supernatural intervention. Idem for all the mysteries concerning origins (Big Bang, abiogenesis and evolution)Would you not then accuse this God of being misleading, since he made a universe which could have made itself with life in it that could have made itself.I think the universe we live in makes much more sense in this regards. If we live in a universe where life is impossible to be produced by natural means, why then is there life ? The answer becomes that life was therefore produced by supernatural means. (Of course, the crucial premise of this logical deduction, that life can't be naturally produced in our universe, hasn't been proven)The same thought process can be done with evolution. I think that there exists no natural mechanism in our universe that can produce the evolution of species (in the sense of common descent of all species from a unicellular). And so once again the same thought process. If life cannot naturally diversify into species, why are there species ?But imagine a universe (for you, strangely ressembling this one ) where the evolution of species is possible. Would you not then say it is a bit misleading of God to make a world where evolution is possible without him being necessary. In fact, I think I remember you saying similar objections to God's existence since you think we live in such a universe.In other words, a universe where life is impossible, yet there is life; where evolution of species is impossible, yet there are species, is much more consistent with a supernaturally created universe then the contrary.PS. and I hope no one will start arguing over semantics of 'evolution' and 'species'. Try to grasp the general idea I'm trying to convey.PPS. Do you ever go play cards in Vegas Dr.A ?

That's about what deists believe. I don't see any particular problem with that concept of God. Of course I don't speak for Dr Adequate. However, I don't see anything misleading about that that. It would merely suggest that God does not have an overinflated ego, so is acting anonymously because he/she doesn't care about the credits.

No more misleading than requiring faith rather than just showing herself.

Of course, it's very general concept that can fit just any about general definition of God. Now if we want to be specific to the Judeo-christian God, with whom in fact there are eternal consequences if you don't know him. In this situation, I see it as preferable that there are signs of his existence in our universe (regardless of if you judge this as having 'an overinflated ego')It's like half-way between ''no evidence that he exists anywhere'' and ''he shows himself to us everyday to make sure we know he exists''. And I'm sure you once asked the very same question CS just did. Hence the irony, because you brush off the evidence he did give us of his existence in his creation by saying ''what a show-off if he were to do that'' but then at another time you will say ''why doesn't he give us more proof that he exists?''

Hi Slevesque, I would not quite agree with that.If God created a universe where (for example) humans could evolve from other species without any supernatural intervention, but then, a bunch of deluded humans come along and claim that God made them out of clay, how does that make God a liar? It just means the human authors of various Bible stories were mistaken.If God made was involved in human evolution, but covered it up, so that it appeared to be completely natural, now that would be dishonest. If we really were made out of clay, but so as to resemble a creature that evolved, that would be dishonest. It would also be spectacularly unparsimonious.Added by Edit; I just saw this; Oh sure, I agree with that. If God had decided that there would be awful consequences for those who didn't believe in him, but still hid his light under the proverbial bushel, that would be dishonest. That would in fact, be absolutely monstrous. Only a diabolical bastard would be so grossly unfair.Mutate and SurviveEdited by Granny Magda, : No reason given.