Health care reform almost at the finish line... correction: it's finished

As do I. However, would you have preferred if nothing got done? I hate to just accept the worse of 2 evils/take whatever we can, but was anything being done about health care otherwise?

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

I would call a health care plan that penalizes you if you don't purchase it, in the form of fines, Federal health care. We can call it whatever we want or disguise it however we feel, but it's government run health care.To sort of change the topic just a bit, and it's been mentioned in passing already in this thread, I'm trying to figure out the need for the government to step in at this point. Maybe someone can explain this to me and maybe it's a state by state thing but here in Ohio, there's health care for everybody, and I mean everybody. We have Care Source and every person that is dirt poor is on this and go to hospitals, prescriptions, ect. It's income based, so maybe this doesn't work out for those who actually go work a job but make barely enough to not qualify. I know tons of people who use this and it doesn't cost them a dime. Do other states have this?My brother is married, has two kids and doesn't make close to what I make and he found very affordable private insurance too here in Ohio. How is it in other states?

Yes, I've already pointed out 2 states in particular. However, there are strict income guidelines. I have also priced out private insurance, and making 45k/yr, I am in no mans land: I make too much for BadgerCare, too little for private. Wisconsin is expensive. I can get cheap private (like $100/mo., but it covers shit. no prescriptions, $10,000 deductible, $250 co-pay, etc. The "good" insurance is in upwards of $1500/mo.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

I knew Straggler started a thread about this a while back, I was looking for it and finally found it. Healthcare In The USAThis was back in August. I love Straggler's opening question: Both then and now, Starggler, the answer is no. It's a good read to see where some of our opinions where then and where they are now.Remember the death panels? - Oni

I made a mistake in the last post. I meant to say this plan is good for you, I wrote "me". I corrected it.You have an employer, I don't. Honestly I don't know if this will benefit me at all.I actually wanted socialized medicine.But I get what you're saying. What bothers me is the corruption between the government, the insurers, the pharm industry and the fake sincerity being portrayed by our government. That some how this is about the people. It's not. It's about money. It's about the pharm industry, it's about the insurers, it's about the lobbyist and the other fucktards in Washington.That's who benefits from all this and that's who's interests were in mind when formulating this Bill. Not the poor, uninsured folk. The pharm industry and insurers could give a shit about them, neither do the lobbyist. All the Obama admin is doing is setting up a plan where all sides meet their individual needs.I posted this in the old thread that Straggler started, I'll repost it here: SurceFrom that article:

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Obama and Big Pharma: Deal or No Deal?
by Jon Brooks
Aug 9, 2009

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The latest flare-up was sparked this week when the LA Times reported that the pharmaceutical industry’s top lobbyist, Billy Tauzin, was crowing about what Big Pharma had received in return for agreeing to $80 billion in cost savings plus the bankrolling of a pro-reform campaign:

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Tauzin said he had not only received the White House pledge to forswear Medicare drug price bargaining, but also a separate promise not to pursue another proposal Obama supported during the campaign: importing cheaper drugs from Canada or Europe.

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Both proposals could cost the industry billionsThe next day, The New York Times corroborated the deal:

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...White House officials...assured drug makers that the administration stood by a behind-the-scenes deal to block any congressional effort to extract cost savings from them beyond an agreed-upon $80 billion

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- Oni

But I am a temp (hiring freeze, company is outsourcing, I've been a temp now for 2 years) so i am not eligible for company insurance. I'm in the same boat you are. So do I. Although, I am leaning toward state run socialized medicine since it seems as though there are plenty of states that already do it well, which at least makes me think it's a viable option. Agreed. But you and I both know universal health care is not going to come to the U.S. anytime soon, so at least this is something, right? I really hate to pit party lines, since I see the gub'ment as a single entity, but, I think most liberals wanted a single payer system that is good for society. It's just that the right scared everyone into thinking that means communism/socialism/marxism/naziism, and the Dems were too scared/weak to keep at it. So they compromised with an uncompromising right thus resulting in what we have now. How many times did we hear about a Republican saying there is no way he will vote yes for anything a Democrat proposes just because of his/her party ties?

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

As I explained to oni...there is no Federal plan.Do you know the yearly cost of your plan, inclusive of your emloyer's contribution?

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$8500 for individuals or $23,000 for families

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"Families" is any non-individual plan. My plan for myself and my dom. partner costs around $600 monthly between myself and my employer, which brings the total to $7200 - I'm still comfortably below the individual cutoff, let alone the family one. I have a pretty decent plan, though not spectacular.Find out what your total is. I'm rather curious to know if you'll actually be affected, or if you just think you will be.

How the hell do you pay that much a month to health insurance?I pay about 80 euros (like 70 dollars or something) a month, my employer pays about 120 euros.What the hell did you do wrong when you need to pay around 500 euros combined a month for health insurance?

That's par for the course in the good 'ole U.S. of A. my friend. Now you see why the uproar over our health insurance?Oh, and his $600/mo? (just going out on a limb here) that's going to include a deductible of at least 500 bucks, $25 co-pay, shit prescription coverage (if any), and very limited "network" meaning the number of doctors you can see is limited. Correct me if I'm wrong, Rahvin.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

Damn! I've got a deductable of 200 euros with that (a year). All prescriptions are coverred, I can go to whatever doctor I want (sometimes even in other countries). What's that "co-pay" you refer to?

I'm not sure I understand your point on the individual/family difference. My work offers insurance to both, whether you are married or not. My cousin is a cop with me, he's single, but has an individual plan.Here's what the "family" plan entails. I pay $40 a paycheck for the family plan, it's $20 for individual plan. Also, a family plan means anybody that is married and/or children and the number of children does not matter...it's all the same whether you have 1 or 100 kids. I'm just going to continue to explain the family plan, not the individual because it's the same, the numbers just go down.We have an HSA, one of the few municipalities to go to such a thing. We have a $4,000 deductible until insurance becomes "free". Now currently under our contract the city frontloads our HSA with $3,000 of that 4k, we come up with the 1K out of paycheck deduction. That right now is a great deal but I can guarantee you on the next contract, the city is going to fight tooth and nail to lower their end of the deal...to like $2,000 or something and we come up with the other 1K.Now, I'm fairly certain that the city is also paying something else to the insurance co. (Anthem) besides what I listed but I will have to check in to what that is, if anything.

You are one of the one's I feel for. Doesn't seem right to me that all these people that DON'T work are given decent "free" (it's not free, someone pays for it) health care while you go to a job everyday, make a decent amount of money (I make 60-62K a year but up that to about 75-80k depending on the amount of overtime available in a given year) but your work offers no insurance and your stuck in no man's land with the cost of insurance. The system certainly needs fixed for people like you but I have no clue what the solution is.

We pay a co-pay for every standard office visit. Say I go to get a physical. The physical itself is covered (provided I've already paid my high ass deductible), I still have to pay a co-pay. They range anywhere from $10 to $40. And that is every visit, up front, before you get seen.The $500 deductible? yea, that is a LOW ass deductible. Any plan with that low of a deductible is going to be at least around $300/mo (that is a low ball estimate with all other options being for shit.)

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

Check out the link I gave for Connecticut. It really is a good system. It covers people who make up to $200k/yr. Everything is covered. EVERYTHING. No deductibles, no co-pays, sliding scale (ranging from $30/mo. to $200/mo.), all prescriptions are covered, ALL baby wellness is covered, so on and so forth.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

Ah, I see. Nope, none of that.I do see I made a mistake, though. 80 euros isn't 70 dollars, it's more like 95 dollars. Damn again! Next time anybody here starts whining about the costs of healthcare, I'll slap them over the head