Health care reform almost at the finish line... correction: it's finished

Very good points. I'd love to see what I would get back from the city and what I could find on mine own. Maybe it wouldn't be worth it but on the flip side....I don't trust the city I work for (go figure, union guy not trusting management...huge shock huh?) to actually give me that money...they'd probably pocket it all and give us a nice 1.5% raise. HA!Let me clarify though, I'm not really a union guy in the same sense that electricians or auto workers may be. We are simply a bargaining unit. We can't strike (obviously) so our ability to leverage the city is weaker then at other jobs. Most of our bargaining is decided by an arbitrator who looks at the contracts other cities are getting in the same year and basis his decision on that so there's not much mystery as to what he'll decide as far as raises go. Our last contract and the one coming up have been brutal for us...we've taken it on the chin in a big way.Rahvin, I'll dig for that premium amount and post it for you.Edited by Flyer75, : No reason given.

And this is 2 adults, no children. So theoretically, those two adults can work and cover other expenses (I know you said your significant other has a condition, hence the hypothetical). Now factor in someone, a single father with a child. He has to cover that expense, PLUS child care, with no one else to make up the income that you would get from a spouse. Let's also think about even a couple with children. Most (not all) families will have one parent stay at home, so it's the same scenario. Sure, that $200 each payday is pre-tax. That's still a good chunk of change. I know right now I can't afford another $400 payment every month. What with 2 car payments, 5 mouths to feed, 2 car insurance payments, rent, etc. The need to reduce this cost is VITAL. How can this be seen as acceptable? Good thing you are well educated and have a good job.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

I'm not entirely sure that it's true that one parent stays home most of the time any more, Hooah.Oh...and since shes on my insurance as a "domestic partner" and the Feds don;t recognize those for tax purposes...my share of the additional premium to cover her is deducted after taxes. And I have to pay income tax on the employer-paid portion of it as well. It's pretty absurd. She's trying for a job with the State as soon as they start hiring again. Her share of the insurance there will be far less than what we pay, and it'll be pre-tax. I certainly don't see it as acceptable. I went without insurance for years because I couldn't afford it and still pay rent.Even with this bill I'll still be the first to call the healthcare system in the US a steaming pile of feces. I'm very glad that we're finally going to resolve some of the problems, but again, the system is broken from its basic principles right now. It needs to be completely restructured, and that unfortunately just will not happen.

I just checked, again, for shits and giggles, what it would cost me for private insurance.Here is what I looked for:Low enough deductable (around $500)
Some sort of prescription coverage
A low enough co-pay (not one that is a percentage)What did I find? For decent coverage, I would be looking at around $250/month. The ONLY decent company is ...wait for it.....WPS which is basically state run insurance. *bolding mine. What's that? Not for profit? How can it be? that's socialism!Any "regular" insurance company around the same monthly price was either an HMO which didn't cover prescriptions, had a copay that was 50% after deductable, or had a much higher deductable.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

Blue Cross California and Kaiser Permanente also advertise themselves as "nonprofit" health providers. Just from quick Google searches. Something seems...off.

Rahvin,I've found this about my insurance. And I'm willing to concede and swallow some pride that you may know more about this then I do right now. I'm not sure if these are the numbers you are looking for or if there is another premium number I'm just not finding but according to my current statement the Annual Out of pocket maximum amounts are listed as this:In Network Providers: $4,000
Out of Network Providers: $8,000I just tried setting up an online account access with Anthem but something messed up and I have to make a phone call so who knows, I may not be able to find out for sure until Monday. I'll keep digging.

Out of Pocket Maximums are the maximum amount you'll be required to pay in co-insurance in a given year. Your insurance will require you to pay a percentage of the cost, but you can pay at most $4,000 in a year of total co-insurance among all of teh procedures that you receive.So lets say you're in a horrible accident of some sort - let's say a fire, so we're talking lots of hospital attention and plenty of skin grafts and so on. Unpleasant topic, but these things happen.You'll be required to pay a percentage of the costs of the hospital stay and surgeries, but once you hit $4,000 in a single fiscal year, you don't pay anything else - 100% of the remainder of what's covered is paid for by your insurance. You might have to pay 20% of Skin Grafts 1-3, but by #4, you're free and clear financially until the next fiscal year, when it starts over.Unfortunately, this isn't the premium, so it's irrelevant for determining whether you'll be affected by the "Cadillac" tax.I went through my own internal HR websites to find the info, but I know that many companies aren't as forthcoming about how much they pay vs. how much you pay.

Has anyone read up on this? Alan Grayson has put up a public option called Medicare you can Buy into.From his Huffington Post article:
he's doing this without corporate sponsors. All donations are coming from us, the people.From his DailyKos article:

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

I just found this calculator to figure out what insurance will cost under each of the 4 proposals. http://healthreform.kff.org/SubsidyCalculator.aspxWhether or not it is accurate remains to be seen.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

The pulic option was something that was supposed to be on the Bill. Now everyone is condeming the idea. But there is a reason why. Read the article about the NY Times reporter.Howard Dean in an op-ed piece for the Washington Post 3 month's ago:

quote:

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"If I were a senator, I would not vote for the current healthcare bill. Any measure that expands private insurers' monopoly over healthcare and transfers millions of taxpayer dollars to private corporations is not real healthcare reform."

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From the Huff Post: NY Times Reporter Confirms Obama Made Deal to Kill Public Option

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For months I've been reporting in The Huffington Post that President Obama made a backroom deal last summer with the for-profit hospital lobby that he would make sure there would be no national public option in the final health reform legislation. (See here, here and here). I've been increasingly frustrated that except for an initial story last August in the New York Times, no major media outlet has picked up this important story and investigated further.

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Furthermore...

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On Monday, Ed Shultz interviewed New York Times Washington reporter David Kirkpatrick on his MSNBC TV show, and Kirkpatrick confirmed the existence of the deal. Shultz quoted Chip Kahn, chief lobbyist for the for-profit hospital industry on Kahn's confidence that the White House would honor the no public option deal, and Kirkpatrick responded:

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"That's a lobbyist for the hospital industry and he's talking about the hospital industry's specific deal with the White House and the Senate Finance Committee and, yeah, I think the hospital industry's got a deal here. There really were only two deals, meaning quid pro quo handshake deals on both sides, one with the hospitals and the other with the drug industry. And I think what you're interested in is that in the background of these deals was the presumption, shared on behalf of the lobbyists on the one side and the White House on the other, that the public option was not going to be in the final product."

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Kirkpatrick also acknowledged that White House Deputy Chief of Staff Jim Messina had confirmed the existence of the deal.

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And finally...

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Polls indicate that about 60% of voters support a public option while only about 1/3 support the overall Democratic healthcare bill. There still time -- very little time -- for Democrats to shift course and include a public option in the final bill, even if it means going back on the White House's backroom deal with the hospital industry. If the media picks up on this story, perhaps the White House and Congressional Democrats can be embarrassed into changing course. If, on the other hand, Democrats continue to honor these special interest deals, then passing an unpopular health care bill may just be walking into a Republican trap.

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What more evidence do we need to see the system, on both sides, is only out to make corporatist deals? The people are of no concern to our elected officials.- Oni

I'm sorry, Oni, but what does this have to do with the proposal Alan Grayson has up? Right, I know. Grayson is trying to re-introduce a public option. Is that what you really think? Haven't you been watching any news? The right has been fear-mongering since any talk of health care was mentioned. "Socialism/Naziism/Communism/Marxism. You think Beck doesn't have an audience? My co-worker sounds EXACTLY like him and he doesn't even realize it. He told me earlier tonight "I hate progressives". He had no valid reason other than "they're progressives". Hmm, where would he get that from? (yes, he is a Beck fan).Secondly, all that is is a couple people saying "well I heard this guy said he overheard this guy say something about a secret backroom handshake". Case in point: Like I've been saying, what is this bill actually really going to do? Not: what do people want to scare you into thinking it's going to do? The talking points and scare tactics are what got us into this mess, yes?And just to clarify, both articles I quoted were written by Grayson himself.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

As a side note, Grayson is a pitbull and also hilarious. Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

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"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

I don't know about everyone else, but I've about had it with this legislation. Tomorrow can't come soon enough, and pass or fail, at least this round will be finished (this begs the question of what will be offered as a replacement if it fails, but that's putting the cart before the horse...) I just thought I'd bring this to light, in case anyone missed it. What a clear example this is of what's wrong with politics these days. ...which led to NY's Anthony Wiener ripping NJ's Scott Garrett a new asshole on the floor of the House. If you've never watched Wiener go at it, so to speak, you can find some pretty funny stuff doing a quick search on YouTube. The dude's a bulldog, if a little skinny...The silly part about all this is that the so-called "doc fix" isn't actually part of the health care plan at all. It's something Dems apparently have on their docket to tackle later this year whether the plan passes or not. Leave it to conservatives to bungle an attempt at a fallacious red-herring which took Dems precisely .7 seconds to debunk.Oh, and in other news we just may be getting rid of Brother Limbaugh if this bill passes. If that's not reason enough to phone your representative right now, I don't know what is. The really funny part about Limbaugh's "threat" is that in Costa Rica (where he'll allegedly live ... afterward ), health care is firmly nationalized. Have a good one.

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"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964

So who watched C-SPAN last night? Incredibly hilarious, the antics just to stall. I must say, it is the first time I have ever actually watched C-SPAN at length.These are historic times, ladies and gents. Whether this is perfect, or just a bandage over an infectious wound: it's something, a step in the right direction. No matter how you look at it, more people will be able to get insurance. Less people will have to wait until it's too late and go to the emergency room for the flu. No longer will greedy fuck insurance companies get to tell you that your diabetes that you were born with is a pre-exisiting condition and you can't get coverage. No longer will that same insurance company get to raise your rates for no reason. No longer will insurance companies get to drop your coverage for costing them too much money. Never again can insurance companies systematically purge their system of HIV patients, dropping their coverage.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

I watch C-SPAN on a regular basis. Never thought I would admit this.But yes, it's a historic moment, comrad.