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Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Evolutionary Theory Explains Diversity | |||||||||||||||||||||||
pandion Member (Idle past 3031 days) Posts: 166 From: Houston Joined: |
Minnemooseus writes:
Of course they do. Dogs have also been known to interbreed with wolves, i.e., Canis lupus. Not surprising since DNA analysis has shown that domestic dogs are descended from Gray Wolves (C. lupus). Coyotes have also been observed to interbreed with Red Wolves C. rufus. In fact, in Texas, the animals now called "Red Wolves" are thought to be a hybrid population of C. rufus and C. latrans (Coyote). Red wolves, on the verge of extinction, selected whatever mates were available, even if they were coyotes. Red wolves only survived because they could interbreed with coyotes. I did encounter a little discussion at VIN, about the interbreeding of dogs and coyotes. Yes they do. But that's not the question. Gray Wolves, Red Wolves, Coyotes, and domestic dogs are 3 separate species and a subspecies of the first. They can interbreed. That's the biological facts. So a Great Dane and a Chihuahua are just variation in "kind" from the wolf "kind." They are, of course, all interfertile. You bet. Like a Gray Wolf would breed with, rather than eat, a Chihuahua. So what, exactly, is a "kind?"
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1055 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
You have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, and 16 great grandparents. If you are male, you have a y chromosome from one great grandparent and mitochondrial DNA from another great grandparent. The other 14 have donated various parts of your other chromosomes, but we can't prove who donated what. If there were 500 women alive at the time of Mitochondrial Eve, just like your great grandparents, they donated a variety of genes, though only one woman donated all the mitochondrial DNA. Yes. So where is the source of your disagreement?
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3458 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
Caffeine did not seem to understand what I was saying about Mitochondrial Eve. I was just trying another explanation.
Though I am a fundamentalist Christian, I am looking at the Bible to see if it allows for Evolution. One interpretation that I am looking at separates Adam and Eve from the creation of man in Gen 1:27. If so, there is no mention of how many humans were created in Gen 1:27, just that there were males and females. Anthropology shows a slow change in stone tools over millions of years, then as if overnight, men start quickly inventing a large variety of stone tools. I am considering whether, at that point, God changed the proto-humans into true humans. My disagreement, if this theory is right, would then turn out to be with my fellow fundamentalist Christians.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi pandion,
The biological definition of species is a population of individuals that interbreed. In practice this means that two or more genetically similar populations can physically interbreed, but that the opportunities to do so are declined in most cases. An example is the asian greenish warbler ring species that has two ends on a somewhat continuous band around the Tibetan plateau, where each sub-population breeds with the neighboring population until you get to the northernmost section of the ring, where two varieties don't see the others either as mates or as competition. As far as dogs go, it is hard to tell what the wild "natural" behavior of a domesticated animal would be when given the opportunity. An interesting side note is the Carolina "Yellow" Dog Carolina Dog - Wikipedia
quote: From the DNA results, if confirmed, it would appear that these dogs by overwhelming preference do not interbreed with other dogs, with wolves or with coyotes, as otherwise the DNA would be mixed instead of basal to "very primitive dogs". It would be interesting to see more DNA research into this to see if they compare closer to wolves, coyotes or dogs. What we could have is a species of dog that came with the original settlers of N.America - the American Indian ancestors - from Asia, explaining their "primitive" genes, and as a result they have some distinct genetic and possibly behavioral differences from dogs brought from europe. The behavioral differences - like in the asian greenish warblers - could be enough to limit if not prevent interbreeding. That would make dogs a "ring species" as well. And of course, ring species are definite proof of the development of additional diversity within populations, diversity due to evolution and in response to the opportunities and adaptations imposed by different ecologies. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : subtitle Edited by RAZD, : clrty Edited by RAZD, : mor clrty by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
greentwiga writes: Though I am a fundamentalist Christian, I am looking at the Bible to see if it allows for Evolution. The Bible says that God created the animals "According to their kinds," not "According to their *fixed* kinds." Reproduction is imperfect, so kinds (as defined by the various existing populations of animals) must inevitably change over time.
Anthropology shows a slow change in stone tools over millions of years, then as if overnight, men start quickly inventing a large variety of stone tools. What change are you thinking of that occurred overnight? --Percy
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greentwiga Member (Idle past 3458 days) Posts: 213 From: Santa Joined: |
The key word is "as if" We can't differentiate between one day and 1,000 years for an event 50,000 years ago.
In Wikipedia, it refers to the great leap forward. Something changed for humans to start on this journey of creativity. Human evolution - Wikipedia Until about 50,000-40,000 years ago the use of stone tools seems to have progressed stepwise. Each phase (H. habilis, H. ergaster, H. neanderthalensis) started at a higher level than the previous one, but once that phase started further development was slow. These Homo species were culturally conservative, but after 50,000 BP modern human culture started to change at a much greater speed. Jared Diamond, author of The Third Chimpanzee, and other anthropologists characterize this as a "Great Leap Forward." Modern humans started burying their dead, making clothing out of hides, developing sophisticated hunting techniques (such as using trapping pits or driving animals off cliffs), and engaging in cave painting.[41] As human culture advanced, different populations of humans introduced novelty to existing technologies: artifacts such as fish hooks, buttons and bone needles show signs of variation among different populations of humans, something that had not been seen in human cultures prior to 50,000 BP. Typically, H. neanderthalensis populations do not vary in their technologies.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
quote: Well this does not support "as if" or "overnight". Did the pace of development improve? Yes. Dramatically? Yes. But what they are trying to say is things sped up dramatically, RELATIVE to the pace prior. You are making this much more than it is. You are agin trying to alter reality to match the flaws in your beliefs and religion. This is not science. It is apologetics and manipulation of facts. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Percy Member Posts: 22508 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
If you're looking to the pace of technological change as an indication of when God created the first real humans, then wouldn't the enlightenment, the industrial revolution, and the 20th century be more dramatic examples?
--Percy
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greyseal Member (Idle past 3892 days) Posts: 464 Joined: |
greentwiga writes: Though I am a fundamentalist Christian, I am looking at the Bible to see if it allows for Evolution. One interpretation that I am looking at separates Adam and Eve from the creation of man in Gen 1:27. Well, it's a much nicer alternative than to stomach the idea that incest was mandated by your god. If it makes you feel happier, Genesis does mention "the tribes of Adam" and "the tribes of man" seperately. Of course, after Noah and the flood, you're back to one bloodline and massive mandated incest again. I would suggest you realise how impossible this ridiculous story is, but...you're a fundie
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Mity Eve is not the topic -- see Message 1
The diversity of species, and how the theory of evolution explains it, are the topic.
quote: Is there any stage in the evolution of organisms that cannot be explained by evolution? Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • • |
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