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Author | Topic: We youth at EvC are in Moral Decline | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
truthlover Member (Idle past 4089 days) Posts: 1548 From: Selmer, TN Joined: |
I don't disagree with you, exactly, but I think my point is being rather lost. I talk too much, and it carries over into my writing. I was already wondering yesterday what the original point of all this was. I don't disagree with your point, neither now that you've restated it, nor earlier. I think it was DrBill who said that the "American dream" (my words, I think, not his) is lost, and many people can't own a home anymore. I don't believe that's true. I'm not talking about moving to a hellhole in Detroit. I'm talking about someone saying, "I don't like the way I live. I should be able to have my own home." The person who does that can still accomplish that, slowly but surely, here in the United States, even if they have to start with a minimum wage job. They may not be able to do it in a city, but there are still plenty of nice places where a person could "pursue their dreams." I'm not saying anything more than that.
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joz Inactive Member |
Can't say I'm an expert but I have taken surplus food from events that I was involved with to the local shelter....
Talked to the fella there who ran things, he maintained that most of the people who stay there have jobs but just can't afford to rent or buy anything..... Now these people may not be immensely qualified but they are out there trying to pay their way and failing because the jobs they can get don't pay enough..... Just a bit of anecdotal "evidence" from the frozen north, and no Rrhain I never published it anywhere.....
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
quote: ........And to get closer to topic, the reason many, I say many, not all, cannot pay the rent is moral depravity.1. Drunkeness 2. Drugs 3. Laziness (let the working taxpayer support me.) 4. Dishonesty (can't be trusted in a job) 5. Thievery (again can't be trusted or record ruined for hiring) 6. Poor rent record. (ruins homes rented in past or spent rent money on drugs or boose.) 7. Flat out refusal to pay rent due even when able. On and on the list could go.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
quote: The title you've given to the thread is missleading in that it implys that I am calling the youth of this forum immoral, which is not the case. My statement had to do with the overall moral decline and in no way singles out any individuals or forums. Schraf, you seem to enjoy going out of your way to misslead as to my character and things I say.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
And to get closer to topic, the reason many, I say many, not all, cannot pay the rent is moral depravity. Then why do the people who study homelessness largely disagree? After all it's their opinion - based on a wealth of data - that largely the reason people can't pay rent is because rent costs some 70-80% of a minimum wage income in most places, which hardly leaves room for food or health care. Rent is outrageously high for the economy we have. If wages are down, shouldn't rent be, too?
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2794 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
buzsaw writes:
Is this supposed to reflect the compassion of Christ? ... the reason many ... cannot pay the rent is moral depravity. For someone who gives lip service to Christian ideals, you are certainly quick to heap scorn upon the unfortunate. Even so, your satanic attitude is founded in little more than scandalous rumor. If you could reform all the degenerates you think are out there, it would do little to assuage the horror of homelessness. I am reminded of a local family who lost their home and their bank account on the day their son was arrested for selling marijuana to a friend at school. They were unaware of their sons activity in this regard but nonetheless lost everything all at once. They had no place to stay. No money for food. No money to hire an attorney. It was the so-called "morality" of our drug laws which brought this upon them. Where is your Jesus when we need him? Apparently not with you. db ------------------Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2794 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
buzsaw writes:
The hazard of making broad generalizations is that someone out there is actually included. When you say, the youth don't have a clue, the young may take it personally. Do you think your words have no effect on others?
The title you've given to the thread is missleading in that it implys that I am calling the youth of this forum immoral, which is not the case. My statement had to do with the overall moral decline and in no way singles out any individuals or forums. Schraf, you seem to enjoy going out of your way to misslead as to my character and things I say.
What misleading? Is there anyone here who doesn't get the same impression? It is a pleasure to attack the venemous rhetoric and self-righteous vehemence which you set before us. db ------------------Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?
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truthlover Member (Idle past 4089 days) Posts: 1548 From: Selmer, TN Joined: |
It was the so-called "morality" of our drug laws which brought this upon them. I'm not following the story. Did the parents get fined for the kid's crime? Did the police confiscate the parents' house? Did the parents just happen to lose the house on the same day, and you're pointing out that they couldn't get a lawyer? Could you fill in the blanks for me?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Add to your list, Buz:
National Coalition for the Homeless Page Not Found - National Coalition for the Homeless Domestic violence (women are forced to leave their homes with nothing in order to save their lives) Low/stagnating wages combined with increased housing costs Devastating illness Decline in public assistance/safety net Lack of low-cost housing Mental Illness [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 08-09-2003]
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Couldn't have said it better m'self.
I like you DrBill.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Nah, I don't think you are too wordy. There are others here MUCH worse than you in that regard.
quote: My point is, what if they don't ever get much further than that minimum wage job?
quote: I dunno. When our economy rather relies on the idea that thousands and thousands of people being out of work is equal to "full employment", and safety nets are evaporating left and right, I'm not sure I believe you that everyone can own a home.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
For homeless people who cannot afford rent there are federal assistance HUD programs to help out. Evidently many choose not to have a home. Must be they choose to not interrupt their lifestyle or do things like seeking work.
quote: [This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-10-2003]
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Except that many of these programs have long, long waiting lists. Read below. National Coalition for the Homeless Page Not Found - National Coalition for the Homeless
quote: quote: Declining wages, in turn, have put housing out of reach for many workers: in every state, more than the minimum wage is required to afford a one- or two-bedroom apartment at Fair Market Rent.(1) In fact, in the median state a minimum-wage worker would have to work 89 hours each week to afford a two-bedroom apartment at 30% of his or her income, which is the federal definition of affordable housing (National Low Income Housing Coalition, 2001). Currently, 5 million rental households have "worst case housing needs," which means that they pay more than half their incomes for rent, living in severely substandard housing, or both. The primary source of income for 80% of these households is earnings from jobs. In 1998, this was the case for only 40% of households with worst case housing needs. This represents a 40% increase in working households with worst case housing needs from 1995 to 1999 (U.S. Housing and Urban Development, 2001). The connection between impoverished workers and homelessness can be seen in homeless shelters, many of which house significant numbers of full-time wage earners. A survey of 27 U.S. cities found that over one in four people in homeless situations are employed, a significant increase from 1998 (U.S. Conference of Mayors, 2000). In a number of cities not surveyed by the U.S. Conference of Mayors - as well as in many states - the percentage is even higher (National Coalition for the Homeless, 1997). [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 08-10-2003]
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truthlover Member (Idle past 4089 days) Posts: 1548 From: Selmer, TN Joined: |
I dunno. When our economy rather relies on the idea that thousands and thousands of people being out of work is equal to "full employment", and safety nets are evaporating left and right, I'm not sure I believe you that everyone can own a home. Ok, let's leave that one there.
My point is, what if they don't ever get much further than that minimum wage job? Why would that happen, other than the mental illness you mention? Even at McDonald's you get raises and progress over time. My wife was working at McDonald's when I met her. She was 20, and she was making more money than I was. Interestingly enough, as an aside, that was in Germany (since Europe's been discussed in this thread), and she was making less than she would have been in the U.S., but she was making more than my landlady's son, who was around thirty. He was making DM 2700/mo (in 1987), and I remember wondering how he was making ends meet with the amount of money the German government must have been taking from that 2700. He had a wife and new baby. He did seem to be doing fine, though.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Do you really think that working at McDonalds is a career path that sets up lots of undereducated people for success. Read Eric Schlosser's "Fast Food Nation" sometime. McDonalds has consistently moved towards less and less training for it's employees in order to cut costs.
quote: Could it be because the taxes the German government take out of his earnings go towards services that actually benefit him, such as national health care and low-cost, subsidized transportation and housing?
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