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Author
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Topic: God vs. Science
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: False Comparisons
Hi Granny,
Granny Magda writes: A scientific investigation of whether your teacher had a diploma or not, would most certainly involve someone looking at that diploma. What good would looking at a diploma do? A piece of paper means nothing. It tells you nothing about the qualifications of a person, only that they have completed the requirements to obtain the diploma. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by Granny Magda, posted 02-04-2008 9:45 AM | | Granny Magda has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 48 of 164 (453935)
02-04-2008 7:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 47 by nator
02-04-2008 7:00 PM
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Re: False Comparisons
Hi nator,
nator writes: If the position being hired for requires a certain kind of degree, a diploma most certainly tells us something about the qualifications of a person. I stated they completed the requirements to obtain the diploma. But I am glad you trust the system. It seems like a lot of our people in education does also. My brother does not. He says only about ten percent of those appling for a teaching position in his county are qualified to teach. All have diplomas from accredited schools. Maybe my source is mistaken. He has only been doing it for 30 years. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 47 by nator, posted 02-04-2008 7:00 PM | | nator has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 50 of 164 (454180)
02-05-2008 8:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 49 by nator
02-05-2008 6:00 PM
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Re: False Comparisons
Hi nator,
nator writes: So, what is your brother's lofty position that he can pass judgment upon the qualification of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of teachers in his county? He the guy who hire and fire. The first 10 years he recommended who to hire and fire. Then he was given total responsibility. He has a test they have to pass for the subject they are interviewing for. Then he interviews each one and checks for people skills. Maybe he just has his goals set too high. He is a perfectionist. But his job is easy now. He has very little turn over. He keeps good teachers until they retire or die. He keeps records of all interviews and test results. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 49 by nator, posted 02-05-2008 6:00 PM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 61 by nator, posted 02-06-2008 9:16 AM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: False Comparisons
Hi Granny,
Granny Magda writes: So would you have us appeal to the anecdotal authority figure of your brother in deciding whether a person is qualified to teach? No. He is not responsible to or for you. He is only responsible to the people who pay his salary which is the county in which he is employed. His job is to provide the best education for the citizens of that county and none other. I was trying to make the point that a diploma does not mean a person is qualified to do a job. It just means that they have met the riquirement to be able to do the job. Education is a tool. Having the tools and being able to use the tools is two different things. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 58 by Granny Magda, posted 02-06-2008 6:14 AM | | Granny Magda has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: False Comparisons
Hi fallacycop,
fallacycop writes: I gather you don't have a diploma. Bitter? I do have a diploma. No I am not bitter. Just stating a fact. Because a person has a diploma does not mean anything. It only tells you that a person has met the schools requirement nothing else. It does not tell you a person can do the job unless it is a vocational school. Where part of the training is actually doing what is being taught that the diploma is for. Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by fallacycop, posted 02-06-2008 7:22 AM | | fallacycop has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 72 of 164 (454495)
02-07-2008 11:05 AM
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Reply to: Message 61 by nator
02-06-2008 9:16 AM
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Re: False Comparisons
Hi nator,
nator writes: Just because someone didn't get their engineering degree at MIT doesn't mean that they aren't qualified to build a bridge, you know. Are you saying since I do not have an engineering degree that all the interstate bridges I built 40 years ago are going to fall down?
nator writes: I mean, what are the statistics from his county? Is his one of the best school districts in the country as far as test scores and kids going on to college or something? yes Have fun,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 61 by nator, posted 02-06-2008 9:16 AM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 81 by nator, posted 02-09-2008 5:45 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: False Comparisons
Hi fallacycop,
fallacycop writes: Why did you go through the trouble of getting a diploma that does not mean anything? I went for an education. Which I received as my grades would indicate. They awarded me a diploma. Now if I had not had the ability to put into practice what I had learned what good would it have been? A diploma says a person has attained a certain mark to qualify for the diploma. It does not say anything about a person's ability to do a certain task. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by fallacycop, posted 02-07-2008 12:24 PM | | fallacycop has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 75 by compmage, posted 02-08-2008 4:42 AM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 77 of 164 (454677)
02-08-2008 9:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Percy
02-08-2008 8:16 AM
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Re: Book Learning
Hi Percy,
Percy writes: While it is true that some people can graduate from an institution of learning having actually learned little, the generalization that this is true of everyone is obviously false. You say it so elequotenly. Some learn very little and the diploma does not tell you who did learn and who did not. So what is the value of the diploma? Bod Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Percy, posted 02-08-2008 8:16 AM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 78 by Percy, posted 02-08-2008 9:35 AM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 79 of 164 (454687)
02-08-2008 9:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 75 by compmage
02-08-2008 4:42 AM
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Re: False Comparisons
Hi compmage,
compmage writes: Was it not the same for your diploma? I had 2 years classroom then 4 years of on the job and classroom training. Not many schools have such a program. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 75 by compmage, posted 02-08-2008 4:42 AM | | compmage has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 82 by nator, posted 02-09-2008 5:48 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 107 of 164 (455882)
02-14-2008 11:46 AM
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Reply to: Message 101 by Rahvin
02-13-2008 9:55 PM
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Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: That's good. I hope you also realize that, absent a specific mechanism to prevent it, those small changes you identify as microevolution will inevitably add up to what you call macroevolution. You should also realize that the micro- and macro- terms are exclusively Creationist/ID inventions - there is no distinction between the two in actual science. First it is not proven that it is inevitable that microevolution will turn into macroevolution. It has never been observed or reproduced under labatory conditions. Second I don't know where the words micro and macro came from. I do know in the 1800's there was a word used that evolutionist did not like. I still use that word. It is a fact that transmutation has never occured in animals. It would have taken a lot of transmutations to get from a single cell life form to a human being. If it had it would be plastered everywhere. Presented as a fact that God did not exist. http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Di...
: an act or instance of transmuting or being transmuted: as a: the conversion of base metals into gold or silver b: the conversion of one element or nuclide into another either naturally or artificially Transmute - definition of transmute by The Free Dictionary
To change from one form, nature, substance, or state into another; transform: transmutation, transmutations- WordWeb dictionary definition
Noun: transmutation `tranzmyoo'teyshun An act that changes the form or character or substance of something - transubstantiation A qualitative change - transformation, shift (physics) the change of one chemical element into another (as by nuclear decay or radioactive bombardment) "the transmutation of base metals into gold proved to be impossible" There are many articles on transmutation but not one single article I can find where one creature became another.
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by Rahvin, posted 02-13-2008 9:55 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 109 of 164 (455886)
02-14-2008 12:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 106 by Rahvin
02-14-2008 11:13 AM
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Re-Walking
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: Buzsaw writes: 4. Whoever is telling to you that a normal person cannot walk 1000 miles? Those who claim "micro" evolution cannot become "macro" evolution are insisting that something prevents small changes from adding up to changes large enough to result in seperate species. It's like saying that something will prevent me from reaching a certain distance by walking - and yet Creationists and IDists insist that there is something preventing "macro" evolution, without proposing any mechanism that would do so. I love this walking example of evolution many like to give. Lets examine it: A man starts out on a 1,000 mile journey taking one step at a time he stops along the way gets food eats, rests but continues his journey. At the end of the journey he is tired, tanned and a little older. Evolution: A wolf starts on a thousand mile journey he makes it one step at a time but they are much swifter than the man so he makes the journey a lot faster and when he gets there he is not as tired as the man was. But he is still a wolf. Yep that is exactly what I think evolution is. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 106 by Rahvin, posted 02-14-2008 11:13 AM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 112 by Rahvin, posted 02-14-2008 12:34 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: Stationary creationism
Hi WK,
Wounded King writes: Secondly by at least one of your definitions, 'A qualitative change - transformation, shift', transmutation is occurring all the time in as organisms reproduce, didn't you ever notice the term mutation in genetics discussions? These are not my definitions. A transformation and a transmutation are not the same thing. Yes I have heard of mutation. Transmutation has never happened in animals. That would be one animal becoming a competely different animal.
Wounded King writes: 'Why are there still monkeys?' Could you point out in my Message 107 are in any of my other 1100+ posts I asked such a question. You wouldn't by chance be doing a little trolling would you? God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 113 of 164 (455894)
02-14-2008 12:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 110 by Rahvin
02-14-2008 12:17 PM
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Re-Micro Macro
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: Define "micro" and "macro" evolution, I thought you gave your definition in Message 101 when you said: "there is no distinction between the two in actual science."
Rahvin writes: Since you've been told this multiple times, are you being willfully ignorant, or is your strawman a boldfaced lie? I hunt the Internet for information of any animal ever becoming another animal. There is no place I find that so states. You and just about everyone here tell me it did take place over 500 million years. You are very adamant on that point in this message 110. There is not a shred of evidence that man came from a single cell life form. There is much evidence of species changing over time. But never of one creature becoming another creature. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 110 by Rahvin, posted 02-14-2008 12:17 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 114 of 164 (455900)
02-14-2008 1:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 112 by Rahvin
02-14-2008 12:34 PM
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Re: Re-Walking
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes: ...that has absolutely no connection whatsoever to evolution or the analogy made. Do you not understand the analogy or evolution, or are you deliberately being misleading? No just trying to point out how stupid the idea is.
Rahvin writes: If a man starts walking West from New York, each individual step is very small, and his surroundings will look much the same. It makes no difference how far this man walks he will still be a man.
Rahvin writes: Evolution predicts that many, many generations of very small changes will eventually add up to very large changes sufficient to designate a new species. If one were to take an example of each generation of a population, there would be very little difference from one to the next, but after many, many generations, the population will start to look different (assuming selective pressure is applied as it is in nature). Eventually those small generational changes can add up to the formation of a new species from the descendents of the original population. I know what evolution predicts. But it has never been proven. There is a history of forams that cover 500,000 years during which 330 species of forams are seen to speciate. article 8 In this article it states:
One of the last great extinctions occurred roughly 66 million years ago and, according to one popular theory, it resulted from Earth's receiving a direct hit from a large asteroid. Whatever the cause, the event proved to be the dinosaurs' coup de grace, and so wiped out a good portion of the marine life--including almost all species of planktonic forams.
The ancient record of foram evolution reveals that the story of recovery after extinction is indeed busy and colorful. "What we've found suggests that the rate of speciation increases dramatically in a biological vacuum," says Parker. "After the Cretaceous extinction, the few surviving foram species rapidly evolved into new species, and for the first time we're able to see just how this happens, and how fast."
"There's a nifty passage in Darwin," says Arnold, "in which he descirbes the fossil record library with only a few books, and each book has only a few chapters. The chapters have only a few words, and the words are missing letters." "Well, in this case, we've got a relatively complete library," says Arnold. "The 'books' are in excellent shape. You can see every page, every word." As he speaks, Arnold shows a series of microphotographs, depicting the evolutionary change wrought on a single foram species. "This is the same organism, as it existed through 500,000 years," he says. "We've got hundreds of examples like this, complete life and evolutionary histories for dozens of species." About 330 species of living and extinct planktonic forams have been classified so far. After thorough examinations of marine sediments collected from around the world, micropaleontologists now suspect these are just about all the free-floating forams that ever existed. 66 million years of forams, with a 500,000 year unbroken record with 330 species of forams. No record of anything but forams. In 66 million years it looks like something else would have appeared. All those small steps ended up with a foram. This 66 million year period is also the same time period man came from whatever was left after this extinction. According to the evidence put forth by Tony Arnold and Bill Parker in their findings I conclude evolution has not taken place as it is presently taught. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 112 by Rahvin, posted 02-14-2008 12:34 PM | | Rahvin has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 117 by Rahvin, posted 02-14-2008 2:05 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re-Micro Macro
Hi t4c,
teen4christ writes: You have a strawman concept of what evolution is. Note that I'm not saying I believe in evolution, but if you want to "disprove" evolution make sure you know what it is first. Arguing against strawman evolution just makes you look... dumb. I do believe in evolution. Evolution = change over time. I do not believe evolution as preached here. I know what evolution is. I was born and raised on a farm. I have taken piney woods rooters and bred them, cross bred them, and over a period of many years produce from an 80 lb wild animal to a 900 lb tame animal. I started out with a hog and I ended up with a hog. Just like in Message 114where 66 millions years ago there was a species of forams. Tony Arnold and Bill Parker found a complete record or forams for a 500,000 year period in which 330 new species appeared. Only thing was they were still forams. I know what evolution is. I also know what is being preached as evolution. If the way I say it sounds stupid so be it. God Bless,
"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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