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Author Topic:   God vs. Science
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 76 of 164 (454661)
02-08-2008 8:16 AM


Book Learning
The claim that education outside vocational schools has little or no practical benefit is so obviously wrong that there seems no need to actually rebut it. Just let it stand.
It is relevant to note that some people do not learn well in formal learning environments, and this is probably where the belief by some that "book lernin` tain't worth much" comes from. While it is true that some people can graduate from an institution of learning having actually learned little, the generalization that this is true of everyone is obviously false.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by ICANT, posted 02-08-2008 9:17 AM Percy has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 77 of 164 (454677)
02-08-2008 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Percy
02-08-2008 8:16 AM


Re: Book Learning
Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
While it is true that some people can graduate from an institution of learning having actually learned little, the generalization that this is true of everyone is obviously false.
You say it so elequotenly.
Some learn very little and the diploma does not tell you who did learn and who did not.
So what is the value of the diploma?
Bod Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Percy, posted 02-08-2008 8:16 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Percy, posted 02-08-2008 9:35 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 78 of 164 (454680)
02-08-2008 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by ICANT
02-08-2008 9:17 AM


Re: Book Learning
ICANT writes:
So what is the value of the diploma?
What is the relevance of this question to this thread? If you really want to discuss whether diplomas have value then you should probably start a thread over at the [forum=-14].
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by ICANT, posted 02-08-2008 9:17 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 79 of 164 (454687)
02-08-2008 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by compmage
02-08-2008 4:42 AM


Re: False Comparisons
Hi compmage,
compmage writes:
Was it not the same for your diploma?
I had 2 years classroom then 4 years of on the job and classroom training.
Not many schools have such a program.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by compmage, posted 02-08-2008 4:42 AM compmage has not replied

Replies to this message:
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tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 80 of 164 (454982)
02-09-2008 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Crooked to what standard
02-01-2008 5:34 PM


i enjoyed this story of course.
many men walk everyday with full faith that what they do and study is real. but give no thought to what is real of what there studying IN.
they might answer, earth, or universe. but they havent considered the "very" beginning. they choose to not look, because its more comfortable. or maybe they just cant reason that far by the way they have learned to reason.
just my opinion tho. good story i enjoyed it

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Crooked to what standard, posted 02-01-2008 5:34 PM Crooked to what standard has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 81 of 164 (454998)
02-09-2008 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by ICANT
02-07-2008 11:05 AM


Re: False Comparisons
quote:
Are you saying since I do not have an engineering degree that all the interstate bridges I built 40 years ago are going to fall down?
You designed the bridges? Or built them?
Anyway, you missed the point of my analogy.
When I wrote:
Just because someone didn't get their engineering degree at MIT doesn't mean that they aren't qualified to build a bridge, you know.
It was just another way of saying that just because teachers (or civil engineers) didn't pass muster with your brother's high standards (like they have at MIT) doesn't mean they aren't qualified to teach (build bridges).
Just becasue people don't pass a very difficult test doesn't mean they aren't adequate to a particular task, in other words.
So, where did he get the 10% figure?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by ICANT, posted 02-07-2008 11:05 AM ICANT has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 82 of 164 (455000)
02-09-2008 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by ICANT
02-08-2008 9:47 AM


Re: False Comparisons
quote:
I had 2 years classroom then 4 years of on the job and classroom training.
Not many schools have such a program.
Of course, that isn't true. Many, many schools have a lot of practical coursework, required internships, etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by ICANT, posted 02-08-2008 9:47 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Crooked to what standard
Member (Idle past 5845 days)
Posts: 109
From: Bozeman, Montana, USA
Joined: 01-31-2008


Message 83 of 164 (455767)
02-13-2008 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Taz
02-03-2008 11:55 PM


quote:
I have an even better story.
Christian: god is all powerful and all knowing.
Atheist: can god stomp his own toes?
Christian: well, yes, but I don't think he'd do that.
Atheist: so god can stomp his own toes?
Christian begins to cry like a little baby, and scream "stop making fun of my faith."
How is that an accurate representation of atheists and christians.
Here:
Would you want to stomp your toes? So why would God? Yes, God can, but why would he?

Iesous
Christos
H
Theos
H
Uios
Soter
Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Taz, posted 02-03-2008 11:55 PM Taz has not replied

  
Crooked to what standard
Member (Idle past 5845 days)
Posts: 109
From: Bozeman, Montana, USA
Joined: 01-31-2008


Message 84 of 164 (455770)
02-13-2008 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Rahvin
02-06-2008 12:30 AM


quote:
Oh, look, he's caught an Evolutionist in a giant contradiction!
...wait, no he hasn't. You observed the river for all of five days, genius, and every other river has debris flowing down it. Assuming that your river does not ever have debris because of 5 contiguous days of observation is idiotic.
Okay, let's put this into context. Lets say that:
  • 1 river = 1 life-supporting planet
  • 1 day = 10 years
    First, we've only been to three spherical celestial bodies (earth, moon, mars). We've only found life on one. So, we've only observed one 'river'.
    And, I'd observed the river (remember we've excluded every other river because we only know one world) for five days (or fifty years). Now if an evolutionist saw that this stalactite grew only a half of a centimeter in fifty years, he'd think that the 2-meter-tall stalactite would be 200 years old, right. Yet, I'm not allowed to do that?
    Sure, using knowledge of other rivers would disprove my theory of that 'watery black hole', but if we ever visit worlds outside of our solar system and if we find life on them, then our knowledge would expand.
    Now, we know that seasons can affect a river's flow. And those changed quite possibly would put debris into the river. But, if one only observed the river for five days during a calm, debris-free period (and had no knowledge of seasons' effect on rivers), one would think that absolutely nothing floated down the river but fish and water.
    Who knows if the Milky Way doesn't have seasons? What if it does, but we've only been alive (or recording) for a 'five-day period' and have had no knowledge of these galactic seasons that may have affect on the earth's clock.
    Personally, I think that a 'galactic season-change' will be here soon (within five years, to be more exact).

    Iesous
    Christos
    H
    Theos
    H
    Uios
    Soter
    Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 57 by Rahvin, posted 02-06-2008 12:30 AM Rahvin has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 86 by subbie, posted 02-13-2008 6:07 PM Crooked to what standard has replied

      
    Crooked to what standard
    Member (Idle past 5845 days)
    Posts: 109
    From: Bozeman, Montana, USA
    Joined: 01-31-2008


    Message 85 of 164 (455771)
    02-13-2008 6:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 62 by Rahvin
    02-06-2008 9:26 AM


    quote:
    What you're saying is identical to claiming the existence of a knife proves Bob killed Jim.
    The knife alone proves nothing other than a knife exists...especially if Jim was shot, or better yet, is still alive. A knife with Jim's blood, Bob's fingerprints, and a dead Jim would be evidence for Bob killing Jim...but without those bits of evidence, the conclusion from the knife's mere existence is a gigantic non sequitur.
    Well, if Jim is laying dead with blood still seeping from a knife wound and Bob is the only other person (let's assume that the detectives don't exist), then we could logically assume that Bob killed Jim.
    I'm saying that Bob killed Jim.
    You're saying that the wind blew the knife off of the magnetic knife holder, it bounced twice on the counter, went into a toaster which popped up, and threw the knife into Jim who happened to be fixing a bowl of cereal next to the toaster and that Bob never existed.
    P.S. Jim is dead, because we're alive. I assumed that the death of Jim referred to the beginning of life.

    Iesous
    Christos
    H
    Theos
    H
    Uios
    Soter
    Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 62 by Rahvin, posted 02-06-2008 9:26 AM Rahvin has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 91 by Rahvin, posted 02-13-2008 6:31 PM Crooked to what standard has replied

      
    subbie
    Member (Idle past 1255 days)
    Posts: 3509
    Joined: 02-26-2006


    Message 86 of 164 (455773)
    02-13-2008 6:07 PM
    Reply to: Message 84 by Crooked to what standard
    02-13-2008 5:53 PM


    Okay, let's put this into context. Lets say that:
  • 1 river = 1 life-supporting planet
  • 1 day = 10 years
  • Wow, that was fun! Let me try.
    Let's say that
  • My backyard = the entire universe
  • 5 minutes (the amount of time I wasted trying to find a point in the post I'm responding to) = the age of the universe
    I've spent the age of the universe watching the entire universe and saw no sign of the presence of god. Therefore, not only is there no god, I've demonstrated that anyone who thinks there is even any evidence for the existence of god is demonstrably wrong.

    Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
    We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 84 by Crooked to what standard, posted 02-13-2008 5:53 PM Crooked to what standard has replied

    Replies to this message:
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    Crooked to what standard
    Member (Idle past 5845 days)
    Posts: 109
    From: Bozeman, Montana, USA
    Joined: 01-31-2008


    Message 87 of 164 (455775)
    02-13-2008 6:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 63 by nator
    02-06-2008 9:29 AM


    quote:
    I can check all of the evidence for Evolution against reality if so choose, using that same method.
    What happened to the dodo? What is happening to the whales? How come ever since man started to record things, we've only seen species go extinct. We've never seen a new species emerge.
    So, if species are only going extinct, the farther back in time you go, the more species you'd get. However, according to evolution, everything has descended from a freak accident cell, [i]one single species[i]!
    So evolutionists can't explain the decreasing species numbers. But I can. The wisest and richest man in the world a long time ago wrote something. He was the guy that had the ability to do anything, have anything, etc. and he realized it was all for rot. Here's what he wrote:
    King Solomon in Ecclesiastes 1:9, 10 writes:
    ...there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, “Look! This is something new”? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time.
    Edited by Ichthus, : More information.

    Iesous
    Christos
    H
    Theos
    H
    Uios
    Soter
    Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 63 by nator, posted 02-06-2008 9:29 AM nator has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 88 by subbie, posted 02-13-2008 6:18 PM Crooked to what standard has replied
     Message 92 by Rahvin, posted 02-13-2008 6:39 PM Crooked to what standard has not replied
     Message 95 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-13-2008 8:55 PM Crooked to what standard has not replied

      
    subbie
    Member (Idle past 1255 days)
    Posts: 3509
    Joined: 02-26-2006


    Message 88 of 164 (455776)
    02-13-2008 6:18 PM
    Reply to: Message 87 by Crooked to what standard
    02-13-2008 6:15 PM


    How come ever since man started to record things, we've only seen species go extinct. We've never seen a new species emerge.
    A much more interesting question to ask would be how many times do we have to tell a creo that speciation has been observed in a laboratory setting and in the natural world before the creo will stop spreading the falsehood that we've never seen a new species emerge?

    Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
    We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 87 by Crooked to what standard, posted 02-13-2008 6:15 PM Crooked to what standard has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 90 by Crooked to what standard, posted 02-13-2008 6:27 PM subbie has replied

      
    Crooked to what standard
    Member (Idle past 5845 days)
    Posts: 109
    From: Bozeman, Montana, USA
    Joined: 01-31-2008


    Message 89 of 164 (455778)
    02-13-2008 6:25 PM
    Reply to: Message 86 by subbie
    02-13-2008 6:07 PM


    quote:
    Wow, that was fun! Let me try.
    Let's say that
    # My backyard = the entire universe
    # 5 minutes (the amount of time I wasted trying to find a point in the post I'm responding to) = the age of the universe
    I've spent the age of the universe watching the entire universe and saw no sign of the presence of god. Therefore, not only is there no god, I've demonstrated that anyone who thinks there is even any evidence for the existence of god is demonstrably wrong.
    That's nice, but how does those five minutes have anything to do with anything? My time periods were actually in relation, because somebody tried to put that river with the world, so I expounded. You expounded on nothing. You just pulled numbers out of mid-air.

    Iesous
    Christos
    H
    Theos
    H
    Uios
    Soter
    Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 86 by subbie, posted 02-13-2008 6:07 PM subbie has not replied

      
    Crooked to what standard
    Member (Idle past 5845 days)
    Posts: 109
    From: Bozeman, Montana, USA
    Joined: 01-31-2008


    Message 90 of 164 (455780)
    02-13-2008 6:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 88 by subbie
    02-13-2008 6:18 PM


    quote:
    A much more interesting question to ask would be how many times do we have to tell a creo that speciation has been observed in a laboratory setting and in the natural world before the creo will stop spreading the falsehood that we've never seen a new species emerge?
    If new species are emerging, how come we're worried about others going extinct. According to you, these new species are better that the last ones, so shouldn't we be attempting to help evolution create the perfect animal.
    Just for clarification, humans aren't the perfect animal.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 88 by subbie, posted 02-13-2008 6:18 PM subbie has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 93 by subbie, posted 02-13-2008 6:39 PM Crooked to what standard has replied
     Message 97 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-13-2008 9:01 PM Crooked to what standard has not replied

      
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