Is the bible the word of God or men?

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Is the bible the word of God or men?

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if we look at the "word" in its original form, mainly referring to the original hebrew translation, we see how the word of God was delivered.my standpoint is that the bible is the word of God.mainly the torah.the torah is the first five books of the bible or old testament.on mt. sinai after exodus YHVH spoke to moses and gave instruction and new rules for observing the one true God for moses to deliver to the israelites. this instruction from God to moses is referred to as the oral torah, the oral torah was spoken to moses to instill the word of God in moses' heart and mind. the written form of the oral torah is the actual torah, where an israelite would be able to access instruction on how to properly observe and worship YHVH. otherwise known as the pentetauch or the first five books of the bible.YHVH in the hebrew tradition teaches all that ever was or will be is contained in the first five books or torah. and this was delivered by God to moses via oral tradition and moses was the first to pass this on to the israelites at mt.sinai.so the word of God passed to moses on mt.sinai later written in form of the torah or the pentetauch is the "written word of God", from the very first letter to the last, alpha and omega, the torah.everything else after in the bible could be considered the inspired word of God as transcribed by men. but the torah is the word of God deliverd by God.the new testement is contemplation and perspective of those considering the after effects of what CHRIST INFLUENCED ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF THE OLD TESTEMENT.

the word is both literal and metaphorical.
the bible is an extremely encoded compilation.google the legend of pardes......it is in this story of ancient hebrew sages that found themselves in the orchard of pardes debating wether the word of God was literal, allegorical, or metaphorical etc.in the end they decided that there are four levels to every one verse of the bible, on one level the line could be read literally and give meaning, on another level you could read it metaphorically and receive meaning, and there are two other levels of considering a verse or verses from the bible, but i would have to brush up on this as well, for i have forgotten.all that said, in all of God's beauty i would believe IMO that He was capable of implying many levels of meaning within one verse.
just as the written word of man through different translations and renderings of the bible could have been perverted or dejudaified for whatever reason, the notion that the words of the bible should be read either metaphorical alone or literal alone could also be a perversion as to askew mans perspective.

i have supplied one reference for you to google and that is the legend of pardes from ancient hebrew tradition, i have to log off now, if that is not satifactory, i will be back tomorrow.

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Are you describing that God/elohim/eloheim/yahwah/lol/ has some scripture in Heaven that it delivered to Moses on Mt Sinai?

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like someone else posted later we have the words of john descibinhg that GOd is the word, mathematically that would look like GOD=word, there was no physical written scripture that YHVH posessed in the heavens, when he spoke to moses on mt.sinai he was orally delivering the word, which in turn according to jewish tradition was later transcribed into the written words of the torah.
so the words spoken to moses were that of the oral torah, it was spoken to moses so that it would be absorbed upon his heart and mind, the metaphor here is that now after YHVH has spoken the word to moses it is now in the hearts and minds of men, to then act out the word to be dilligent followers the jews were required to transcibe the oral torah into the written torah.
so here we see the first five books were delivered orally directly from God to moses, the evidence of this is the written torah, later books of the bible as i have stated are of men inspired by God, but the torah is direct divine passing of His word to moses, thus we can consider the first five books or the torah, the written word of God.was it enoch or moses who saw the face of GOd? if it was not moses then he was in contact with metatron, who is God's direct messenger, which i guess could be considered an elohim of some sort, but when moses asked who it was that is sending him with His message, in exodus 3:14 he staes tell then it is "I am the I am", or "I will be Who I will be", in hebrew translated into YHVH.

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the "oral law" or "oral torah" is the talmud.

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i believe you are just a little inaccurate............
from wikipedia..........
The Talmud (Hebrew: —) is a record of rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, customs, and history.The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah (c. 200 CE), the first written compendium of Judaism's Oral Law; and the Gemara (c. 500 CE), a discussion of the Mishnah and related Tannaitic writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Tanakh. The terms Talmud and Gemara are often used interchangeably. The Gemara is the basis for all codes of rabbinic law and is much quoted in other rabbinic literature. The whole Talmud is also traditionally referred to as Shas (" (a Hebrew abbreviation of shisha sedarim, the "six orders" of the Mishnah).

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unfortunately, this is nothing but old tradition. textual analysis (even medieval textual analysis) demonstrates pretty clearly that moshe could not have written the torah. for starters, it describes his death.

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if you would kindly re-read what i have posted you will see that i have not said that moses wrote the torah, i stated that it was "later" transcribed into the torah.
in fact i agree that the torah was not written by moses.
from my understanding, the torah was not to be written according to jewish tradition until the oral tradition was perfected in the hearts and minds of the men and women. later when they understood the oral torah they were then to write it for edification and further reference.

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"bible" and "code" appearing in the same sentance is a sort of pet-peeve of mine.

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well thank God that the bible was not soley written for just your purposes alone.........a lil rib jab all in good humor......

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ah, see, here's where the problem starts. the story of pardes is itself an allegory. the system of thought came first, and was remembered through the mnemonic "orchard" or pardes. the word "pardes" is an abbreviations for pshat, remez, dresh, and sod. or "literal, allegorical, applied, and mystical." the only part that comes close to being a "code" is the "mystical" part -- where one thing might symbolize another.

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here you are kind of supporting my position.the story may be allegory or metaphor, but some of the greatest teachings of Christ YHSHWH were metaphors were they not?also it is taught that in the jewish tradition YHVH appointed prophets and sages to debate and refine the word so as to provide for those dilligently seeking the word to have reference.
i believe this correlates direcly with the talmud, it is a discussion of debate refining the many intracasies of the "word", it is compared to jewish "code" or rules, this in itself suggests that the word is complicated enough or encoded to the point where a debate considering the many fascets of the jewish faith might have more than one meaning when considering what the word is actually saying.

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the word "pardes" is an abbreviations for pshat, remez, dresh, and sod. or "literal, allegorical, applied, and mystical."

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thank you for refreshing me on the actual definition of pardes. but again i think you are helping my standpoint, maybe we agree and don't know it........YHVH created using different combinations and vocalization of the 22 letters of the alef bet, the hebrew alphabet correct? he created the ten emanations of the upper worlds or the heavens right, the ten sefirot- tree of life, in metaphor could we not consider this the dna strand of the universe in accordance to Gods creation? is dna not an encoded formula of genetics for the human?
if God "is the word", and the word was first emanated through the divine vocalization of the alef bet and its many combinations that would mean that the hebrew language was used before the oral torah was even delivered to moses on mt.sinai, thus showing that the word was a code before men understood it as letters and words.
if there are levels or emanations of the tree of life or ten sefirot using the hebrew alphabet, there must be levels or emanation of the "word" of God that we are considering.
with that being said, and according to jewish tradition and the fact of prophets and sages who were instructed to debate the word to find its many meanings, and to have the talmud as reference to jewish law, it would only make sense that the words pshat, remez, dresh, and sod. describing pardes, were found by ones in the orchard to have meaning through dilligent debate of the word that there might be more than one level or emanation of the "word" to consider.
this is all jewish tradition, and who are we as men to pick and choose which we subscribe too,we are to follow all the rules. it may have bben allegory how it was thought of, but it was thought of within the context of jewish law and thought, which in my eyes makes it ligit to say the word is indeed coded, as a metaphor, and that the word also has its literal points.