|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,907 Year: 4,164/9,624 Month: 1,035/974 Week: 362/286 Day: 5/13 Hour: 0/2 |
Thread ▼ Details |
Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: The Bible was NOT man made, it was Godly made | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
haha funny something in English if you please
Well you did ask for a direct quote.
This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
10:37Abdullah Yousuf Ali translation Live every week like it's Shark Week! Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gen Member (Idle past 6010 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
my question is, do YOU believe this, or are you just finding some opposition for me for oppositions sake?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
I did not ignore 90% of your post. The books which did not agree were left out because they werent inspired by God. Rubbish. You just said minutes ago that the Bible must be inspired because the books agree with each other. Now you admit that the books were specifically selected to conform? I can pick any number of books that agree with each other, even ones that claim a divine origin. Does that make them actually divinely inspired? What if they completely contradict the Bible? What of the canons that include additional texts that the Council of Nicea determined were not inspired? What of the few churches who predate the Council and have a different canon? What of the Protestant canon that leaves out several books accepted by the Council of Nicea?
The authors did know about some of the earlier books, but what difference does that make? It means that your point about the authors not knowing each other is misleading and irrelevant. The New Testament authors all recognized and knew the Jewish texts, and other writings besides - some of which are not in the modern Bible, despite being accepted as canon in the early church.
The four Gospels were written by four different men, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Some of them knew Jesus, and presented an eyewitness account, while others wrote stories they had heard from others. They were men of different educations-Matthew was a tax collecter, Luke was a doctor, John was a fisherman, and I think Mark was a scribe. So of course each of them would have a different writing style. It's like comparing the writings of a person with a phd to those of a kindergarten student. It's worse than you realize: NONE of the authors knew Jesus. ALL of the modern Gospels are reconstructions of the original Gospel texts, written 50 years or more after the events supposedly took place. Stylistic differences don;t even approach the truth, either - Jesus is portrayed as an entirely different character in each Gospel, and each seems to pander to a specifically different audience. For instance, Jesus final words were either "Father father, why have you forsaken me" or "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." (I apologize if my quoting is off, that was from memory). These are entirely different statements, and tell different, contradictory things about Jesus! In one Gospel there is supposedly a great darkening of the sun and an earthquake - there is no such historical record, and the other Gospels do not mention it (and an earthquake is pretty damned hard to ignore). I could go on. Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
are you just finding some opposition for me for oppositions sake?
My motivation is not relevant to the discussion. Live every week like it's Shark Week! Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
I know what the scientific method is. Yet clearly you don't, or you would understand evidence and proof.
So do you not believe anything you read just because it says it is true, and you think it is not. Let me introduce you to faith. Faith is believing in what you cant see. Being sure of something that you havent actually experienced or felt for yourself. This is called "gullibility" and "delusion." It's what causes little children to believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5944 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
gen writes: my question is, do YOU believe this, or are you just finding some opposition for me for oppositions sake? The same question can be asked of you. You come here with simplistic reasons why the Bible is Godly made and then balk when you same reasoning is applied to a religious book you are unfamiliar with and then you equivocate. What reasons do you have not to believe this?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gen Member (Idle past 6010 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
the books which dont agree are NOT inspired by God!!! God also inspired the people who chose what books to put in the Bible. There is a vast difference between knowing someone and knowing someones writings. A lot of the authors DID know Jesus, that is a fact. John and Matthew were both Jesus disciples. The different gospels covered different parts of Jesus life, and he did say both those things while on the cross.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gen Member (Idle past 6010 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
good job avoiding the question. Another thing-correct me if im wrong, but arent the writings of the Qu'ran all by ONE person? the Bible was written by heaps of people who didnt know each other, and yet their statements agree.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gen Member (Idle past 6010 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
your motivation is why you are in the discussion and therefore it is relevant
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gen Member (Idle past 6010 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
I do understand what the scientific method is. Do you believe the world is round?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5944 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
gen writes: good job avoiding the question Just what question did i avoid?
gen writes: Another thing-correct me if im wrong, but arent the writings of the Qu'ran all by ONE person? And that discounts it because.....
gen writes: the Bible was written by heaps of people who didnt know each other, and yet their statements agree. So in your opinion do these...
Exodus 32:27 writes: Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor Agree with....
Matthew 5:43-48 writes:
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shall love thy neighbor, and hate your enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gen Member (Idle past 6010 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
'DrJones' who i was replying to, was asked if he believed the Qu'ran writings he was talking about. He avoided the question in the reply. The difference between the Qu'ran and the Bible is that the Qu'ran was written by one person, who said it was inspired by God, but the Bible was written by at least 40 people over 1000s of years, yet it still all agrees.
You must take everything in the Bible in context. The text in Exodus was said after the Israelites had sinned, creating an idol that they put before God. Moses said (verse 26) 'Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.' All the others were killed, because they had disobeyed God and been unrepentent. The quote from Matthew is when Jesus was talking, teaching his disciples and the people how to live in harmony with one another.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5944 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
gen writes: but the Bible was written by at least 40 people over 1000s of years, yet it still all agrees. I just demonstrated that it does not.
gen writes: You must take everything in the Bible in context. As in contextual or situational or relative ethics?
gen writes: The text in Exodus was said after the Israelites had sinned, creating an idol that they put before God. Moses said (verse 26) 'Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.' All the others were killed, because they had disobeyed God and been unrepentent. The quote from Matthew is when Jesus was talking, teaching his disciples and the people how to live in harmony with one another. Jesus did not say love your enemy unless they have sinned creating an idol. The statement and the philosophy being exemplified do not agree - try as you may the words are stark and plain. Here is another...
Ezekiel 9:5 writes: Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all - old and young, girls and women and little children. Show no mercy and no pity for even the innocent children. Compare to Jesus's words and tell me how these thoughts agree. Edited by iceage, : No reason given. Edited by iceage, : Fixed subtitle
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
the books which dont agree are NOT inspired by God!!! God also inspired the people who chose what books to put in the Bible. There is a vast difference between knowing someone and knowing someones writings. A lot of the authors DID know Jesus, that is a fact. John and Matthew were both Jesus disciples. Why did God inspire different groups of people to include different selections of books? And the authors of the manuscripts we have available today (the oldest and best versions we have uncovered) trace back to documents created over 50 years after Jesus was supposedly executed - long after the original "participants" would have been dead and gone. These manuscripts were re-creations from memory of the original source documents, which were destroyed. Some Biblical scholars also believe one or more of the Gospels may have used another of the Gospels as the source document. Textual scholars also note that, at varying points in history, each of the books of the Bible has had sections changed, added, or removed - sometimes significantly so. Bart Ehrman, a former fundamentalist who was driven by his faith to devote his life to studying the Bible, said in his book "Misquoting Jesus," that (paraphrasing from memory) there are "more errors in the New Testament than there are words." Surely an all-powerful deity inspiring authors should be able to keep his holy text consistent over the years! There are specific, well-documentd cases where entire parables have suddenly appeared in texts seemingly out of nowhere. Older copies do not contain these sections anywhere for many, many years - and then suddenly another copy is found with an entirely new story added. Multiple words are changed in multiple copies - sometimes due to obvious translation errors or words that look alike (when compared across multiple texts for consistency) and sometimes even based on interpretory notes scribbled by a previous scribe on the document being copied. How can such a mismatched and obviously corrupted text be considered divinely inspired? You say the books not included were not inspired - why then is there such a difference within the actual books themselves, simply examining the various copies that were made through the years to eventually lead to the several versions we have today?
The different gospels covered different parts of Jesus life, and he did say both those things while on the cross. Read them again. This time, critically compare the Jesus character, and think about what stories were left in and which were left out of each. Jesus appears to be a completely different person in each of the Gospels. He says wildly different things on the cross - why would he say both that his father had forsaken him, and then commend his spirit to him? Those statements are mutually exclusive, and none of the Gospels contain both quotes - it's clearly a contradictory account, not a "different perspective." There are other contradictions within the Bible as well - this is just the first one I thought of. Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rahvin Member Posts: 4046 Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
he difference between the Qu'ran and the Bible is that the Qu'ran was written by one person, who said it was inspired by God, but the Bible was written by at least 40 people over 1000s of years, yet it still all agrees. Just a nitpick - while Muslims trace the origins of the Qu'ran to Mohammad, it was transmitted only as an oral tradition, from memory, for the first several generations. The actual text was conglomerated much later, much like the Bible was formed from multiple texts. There were many, many authors of the modern Qu'ran, and the included suras were chosen because they were determined to be of divine origin. Again, by men.
You must take everything in the Bible in context. The text in Exodus was said after the Israelites had sinned, creating an idol that they put before God. Moses said (verse 26) 'Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.' All the others were killed, because they had disobeyed God and been unrepentent. The most interesting part about this is Moses does this shortly after being given the commandment "thou shalt not kill." I find the sequence of events to be highly ironic. Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024