The significance and symbolism of the sea.

Fuedian slip?

It's OK not to be God. It's even OK not to be godlike.It's a good idea to remember moments like this, though, before risking more ambitious feats of author attribution.Such as saying that certain words penned centuries ago are indisputably the thoughts of the Deity, for example.It is always a not-God mind making such evaluations, isn't it?Which returns us, it seems, to arachnophilia's point.__

---

ArcherAll species are transitional.

You can let Arachnophilia make up his own mind. But no, actually you are still assuming God does not reveal Himself if even through pathetic vessels. If you saw him you would die. So we have to work with what we have.And your right, it is ok not to be God. We don't have to have all the answers to know that He exists. Just like you don't have to have al of the answers to have faith in evolution.It's a seeing faith for both. The evidence is just interpreted differently. And motive is the key to the abyss.That's where the light is. That's where the honesty resides. what is the motive. Once we see our own motive, we begin to see why we see what we see, and don't see what we don't.

Not at all.It is you who assume a great deal about what other people believe.You are very often wrong.__

---

ArcherAll species are transitional.

No, it a worldview based on what we see around us. I do not use the term absolute. Your desire to label naturalism as such reflects your own absolute worldview, not mine. Death and disease are a natural part of life. Absolutes don't come into it. Scottness, you've completely misunderstood me here. I meant to imply that I do not expect any "truth" from life. I forgot the quotation marks.i.e. "I don't "want" to see anything?"Having said that, I'd prefer it if you'd refrain from taking the tone of a parent warning a child about the dangers of his "rights". For your own sake? For the sake of your friends and family and society at large? Is that not reason enough? Firstly, with respect, this strikes me as very shallow - "I'm gonna die anyway so I'm just gonna commit suicide". Sounds like something a stroppy teenager would say!Secondly, I simply don't see how the logical conclusion of naturalism is to kill onesself. Nature cares not a whit for your sacrifice. You might aswell exist while you can.Life isn't an auditon for heaven. Life isn't a means, it's an end. Enjoy it the best you can, in all likelyhood you won't get another.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Your pretty reasonable RickJB... but I can see you wonder where I am going and where these things I say come from. It's tough stuff. Not unless the universe was created only for my skake and the sake of my immediate friends and family.I think the universe was created for God's sake. And in His will, we find that we have been selfish little beasts swimming in a sea of confusion.Will the drowning man refuse to be pulled from the water, and say the water gave him birth, and that he was made to drown?John 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

---

Matthew 10:26 "So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.

Here again is the much hyped quote of yours; I think the above is a great segue into a topic I wanted to bring up in thread 'Christianity, Knowledge, and Science'. There the author says that since the beginning christianity has stigmatized knowledge. While I don't agree that this view comes form the Bible, it is partially correct. And that is, because of what you have said above. At one time, I think in many cultures, religious knowledge and scientific knowledge were all part and parcel to each other. In the early church, science was looked down upon when seperated from religion. Astronomers were astrologers, and chemists were alchemists. Science was, to them, looking for answers from some supernatural power that was not in line with what God had commanded. It is not that God said, 'don't be scientists' but in those dark ages, many things were hidden and mysterious; if someone claimed to have knowledge of such from a source outside of faith, it was viewed as a type of witch-craft. Really, not much has changed since those days. The way the ToE is viewed as 'evil' is a similar mindset, a fear of learning things through physical means that we were not 'supposed' to know.

If you have a child that needs cuddling, you can cuddle it. If you have a friend who needs help, you can help him if you choose. The origin of the universe at large is pretty irrelevent st this scale. Will the "drowning" man suddenly wake from his dream and realise that he is actually lying on solid ground? Will he realise that there is actually nothing to fear? Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Of course Rick... But not everything is that scale. I spoke very clearly. I said:You're talking about self preservation... What happens if your whole family is in danger? Would you die for them?I'm talking about the whole of humanity... would you give your life for them? I don't understand what your trying to say.

Proverbs 20:5 The purposes of a man's heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out.

Arach (and Anastasia), I wanted to point this out in a Bible study thread. Arach, there is something significant you helped me to realize about 'thea'. (http://www.theoi.com/Encyc_T.html )Staggering beauty and power! Job 41:18 His snorting throws out flashes of light; his eyes are like the rays of dawn. 32 Behind him he leaves a glistening wake; one would think the deep had white hair.obviously there is a gender issue with that one. But Satan is only the spiritual creature behind the mahem. It is mankind that puts on the display in manifestly physical form.And don't forget about EVE: Ge 3:5 - Show Context
"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."I haven't put it all together, and I don't think I have to. There are so many Biblical passages to confirm this...Thea is simply another incarnation of the serpent of the sea, who tosses the sea, and masquerades as an angel of light. And blinds the minds of those who refuse to believe in Christ and His sight giving authority.2Co 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.Light is the realm of God Biblically. I don't even need to quote the Bible on that, you know the Hebrew thoughts on that.But look at this: There you see the 'theories (thea-horan) of men' who rejected the word of God for cheap immitations, signs and wonders. As Paul says in Romans 1, 'they exchanged the truth of god for a lie' (a great actress and her theatrical marvels).Sight and vision is a free gift of God. It is not with the eyes of flesh, but with the conscious through the eyes. 'To see' Him, is to see indeed. And not just 'a view' (or perspective), but the 'whole show'.Ps 146:8
the Lord gives sight to the blind, the Lord lifts up those who are bowed down, the Lord loves the righteous.Mt 11:5
The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.Lu 4:18
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,Lu 7:22
So he replied to the messengers, "Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.No wonder so many refer to God as she with rebellious glee...

what version of job are you reading? mine lacks one of those verses. also, by tradition, leviathan is female even though by grammar he is male. it's said that leviathan is female to balance behemoth's overt male-ness (with the virility/boner references). i don't think it's a good idea to conflate serpents, and assume it's the devil. these are distinct entities. they've become related over time, but were not originally intended as such. i don't think you have a very consistent point. the tempting forces always promise god-like powers, but those powers can't represent both good and evil. i don't think you can draw a clear analogy across cultural lines like this -- things apply neatly in the levantine region, but greece was off doing its own thing at this time, and the jews knew very little about them until just after the biblical period.

---

I was reading the NIV...As for the rest, we disagree... Well the apostle John would disagree in my opinion...

ha, well, i don't think it's a good idea to conflate the apostles john either, but that's another thread!

---