Surrendering to Jesus/God is Not Biblical

I asked God to possess me. Demonic possession works by the same rules God established. A person who is possessed by demons, in some had to ask or invite the demons to possess them. That is the law of the spirit world. Look at the vampire tales which may not be tales. You have to invite the vampire in. Likewise you have to invite Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, and God in. God does not possess most people because most people never ask. I did. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Agreed. But following a guide is not surrender. Do you mean "listen" or "obey"?I agree that God wants us to listen to His guidance. I don't agree that He always gives us explicit instructions to obey. Oh no. I believe that some people do surrender to God. I just don't believe that's what He wants. At least, not for everybody.

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I agree. The problem is that anyone who draws a line is not a christian. I mean that they never "knew" God and He never "knew" them. Most on this thread are evolutionists disquising themselves as believers of God. Check the science threads(same people there are here); there only point is to disprove God's Word. Before you can understand the Word, you have to believe in God. Which is saying you have to be saved(a christian). So yes we believe the bible to be a divine(not magical) book that only certain people can decipher. Only us christians will ever understand this CTD. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Can't argue on that one. You never made this point clear to me. No one can truly argue this point without being God. I'll admit it's possible he may not want everybody to be the same. The bible does say "many are called; few are chosen." Which are you? I'm one of the chosen; I had no choice. He would not allow me to be anything other than what He wanted me to be. Others do seem to live a happier life than I ever could without Him. It's your life; I'm only ASSuming it would be better if you submitted because of my experience. I guess God chose me; The 144,000.

We're not talking about life with or without Him. We're talking about life as a son/daughter or life as a servant. It may be that God wants servants as well as sons, but it's pretty clear (from the parable) that He doesn't want His sons to go backward and become mere servants. You seem to be at the stage of the son leaving the pigsty and being willing to be a servant. When (if) you actually arrive home, you'll find that your Father welcomes you as a son.

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This is another quote from John W. Ritenbaugh, but this type of comment is what I find misleading for non-Christians and some new Christians. In the NT repenting is not the same as surrendering.Today repenting is not the same as surrendering.The word used for surrender in the NT is not translated as submit and the word used for submit in the NT is not translated as surrender. Neither is translated as repent.The bare bones of our word surrender is to give up or deliver over. Today we use the word very casually. We surrender our keys at the end of the lease or are asked to surrender our credit card to the cashier to be cut up. The word does not imply return.Giving up control, even voluntarily, to anyone or anything carries the meaning that the individual no longer has control.Saying that one must give up control to God implies that the individual no longer has control, which isn't true. We still have control of our senses, muscles, etc. We can still choose to do wrong. We are still accountable for our actions.IMO, it is better to teach people how to use and strengthen their self-control, instead of giving them a false sense of security that "it" is under God's control and God will fix it.IMO, Jesus taught people to improve their self-control when he showed them that wrong thoughts can lead to wrong actions.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

I should not seem anyway to you yet. All we talked about is whether surrendering to God is what he wants; I never told you anything about myself. If you knew my story, you would see that I seem to be at a level of enlightenment. That's when the ways of the world is no longer important to you. All the knowledge in the world is only useful in communicating with others. Only true God given wisdom is important to me. Wisdom that tells me science says "basically" the same thing religion says; science just uses a different way of explaining it. The bible says "disown yourself" and some say it doesn't say to surely disown yourself. God also told Adam if he ate of this tree he would die; the devil said "you won't surely die." I see the devil (any opposition of God's word is of Satan) is up to his old tricks again.
I believe it was you, Ringo, who pointed out that you only have to surrender to your enemy(using the common use of the word surrender). The bible says you can not serve two masters. With that in mind, if you obey God sometimes and the devil sometimes; you serve the devil only. If you obey God and yourself; you serve the devil only. The devil is God's enemy. Either you are on God's side or you're on the other. Pick one. This is how christians see it and the bible explains it. That's why we use surrender. Until you surrender, we (christians, God, Jesus, and the Holy spirit) believe you ARE the enemy. Fortunately for you, the bible tells us to love our enemies and show them the path(if they want to see it). So Purp, if you truly want to learn what the bible says about surrender every creationist here would show you. In order to learn you would have to be quiet and listen. Some are smart in the ways of the world, some are wise in the ways of God. You can't really believe both. A pastor could not argue with a scientist on the subject of science. A scientist could not argue with a pastor on the subject of the word. Here you all should learn. In the science thread you can teach.

Why not? Neither has ever seen a God, afer all!A pastor's "knowledge" of God's word is equivalent to that of any layman, just as your knowledge of space unicorns is equivalent to mine. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

What book would you use to teach this? The bible does not teach this. The bible teaches that if you could fix it yourself you would have no need for God. You just have the wrong understanding of what the bible means by repenting. Repenting is when you don't want to or can't change, but appologize to God and tell him you will surrender to his will. That's true repenting according to the bible not Webster. I want to know what the bible says about everything.

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The bible teaches that if you could fix it yourself you would have no need for God.

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So show me where God or Jesus say that.

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You just have the wrong understanding of what the bible means by repenting. Repenting is when you don't want to or can't change, but appologize to God and tell him you will surrender to his will.

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Again show me. The NT meanings were not from Webster's.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

See, this is one of those times when it would be appropriate to quote the bible instead of just claiming it says something. (FYI, the word "disown" doesn't occur in the KJV at all - so we might be dealing with another simple misunderstanding of word meanings.) Strictly speaking, I didn't say we "have" to surrender to an enemy. I said (or at least meant) that only an enemy will want us to surrender. So, if Satan is The Enemy™, he's the one who wants you to surrender.I'll point out again that the father didn't accept his son's surrender. Your sermons haven't dealt with that issue at all.

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It seems to me that we are more akin to freed POWs rather than that we are expected to become POWs.In Romans 7:14-25, Paul says: Paul speaks of his realization that he is a victim of habits and addictions and that he often does what he does not want to do. Anyone who has problems with alcohol, cigarettes, gambling, or pornography knows what Paul is talking about. Paul does not speak of surrender, however. Notice Chapter 9: Apparently, it is as Ringo says. The enemy seeks to have you surrender. God wants you to cooperate.
A mind controlled by the Spirit is not a puppet mind. It is a mind that chose the Spirit.Edited by Phat, : fixed quote

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I don't get your point, I guess. There are areas of my life which I will never willingly submit to government interference. When it comes to doing anything God says, where can one rightfully draw the line? And why would any Christian want to do so? I cannot imagine any legitimate motive which would be consistent with the bible.

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And I do not personally believe genuine repentance can be anything less than surrender. God judges the heart, and nothing is hidden from Him.

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I guess we're even. I don't understand your point either.Repentence and surrender (giving up control) are not the same thing in the NT or today. One can surrender without repenting and one can repent without surrendering.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

I suppose that if one believes in a literal spiritual war of sorts, the surrender is in ceasing to be rebellious towards Gods gentle yet firm conviction. To cease to be rebellious and stubborn does not mean that surrender is the only option. It means that willful obedience is the option.

But is that what God or Jesus taught? We're looking at Biblical support for the concept not what imagery one uses to keep themselves in line.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz