Old Earth Flood Geology

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Ned gets a bit uptight when I start bringing to light that water above the atmosphere can exist as a vapor

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Water vapor can exist outside the atmosphere. In fact water outside the atmosphere even if originally as ice will sublime away but it will not stay in a canopy unless you want to violate the laws of thermodynamics. Water vapor is gas. A gas outside the atmosphere will simply diffuse through space trying to equilibrate with entire universe. No canopy and no flood.

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and that super heated waters only cool quite rapidly on the darkside of the earth.

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This makes no sense. One thing is clear is that if you had superheated flood waters there would be no life on earth. I have referred to this before as steamed ark soup.

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Ned really gets uptight about Walt Brown so best not to reply however because your the sort that has a natural interest in this sort of stuff.

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Enjoy !!!!!

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The Center for Scientific Creation: Home of the Hydroplate Theory

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Edited by Charley, 01-20-2007 11:25 PM: No reason given.

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We have all seen Walt Brown's blithering nonsense refuted before and many of us are capable of refuting all or most of it ourselves so I don't see why anyone would get uptight about it. It is totally absurd and designed only to appeal to the scientifically ignorant. Edited by Randy, : No reason given.

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Not so, Titan magnetosphere is believe to be the reason ionized water vapor is trapped above the ionosphere. Good try though.

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The actual concentration of these trapped ions (note they are ions, that is the only reason they can be trapped) is about 40/cc.
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2005/2005GL022653.shtmlI calculate that you would need to condense a "Vapor canopy" of this concentration that extends from the surface of the earth out to about half way to the moon to get a kilometer of water from your global flood from this canopy. Also you will note that the water ions are moving very fast, that is they have tremedous kinetic energy, the kinetic energy, the potential energy due to their position above the earth, the ionization energy and heat of vaporization all would have to be released to get this water to fall to the earth as rain. So how is that going to happen without raising atmospheric temperatures well beyond what life could stand. The answer is they couldn't, even if they could somehow be held in place by some sort of magically high magnetic field.There is a reason that ICR gave up on the vapor canopy a long time ago. It just doesn't work.
Randy
Added in Edit: BTW those ionized water molecules are escaping into space even though they are in the plasma, they are just being replaced by a little bit of outgassing from Enceladus. Edited by Randy, : Added comment

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The creationists believe the flood waters came from the windows of heaven being opened and the fountains of the deep being opened. The bible does not say it covered the earth with a kilometer of water it says it prevailed 15 cubits upwards did they prevail. kjv genesis 7:20.

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The Bible says that high hills and mountains were covered so you need to have some mountains before the flood. Doesn't it also say the ark landing in the mountains of Ararat? Amusingly creationists both claim there were no significant mountains before the flood and then claim that fossils were sorted because animals either ran faster up or lived higher on mountains while thousands of feet of sediment were deposited.

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You do believe the mountains have been pressed up from pressures in the earth and the oceans lowered by pressures. (Hydroplate theory or tecktonic plate theory)

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Hydroplate theory is bunk. "Lowering by pressure" is not precisely the correct explaination for the bathymetric profile of the ocean. The principle that applies isostacy. Mountains are thrown up by the collision of plates. Trying to do it quickly in the YEC model creates huge energy problems including releasing enough heat to cook the earth to death but it wouldn't matter in you model since your flood water would have already autoclaved the earth.

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Within this inner region the spacecraft acquires a negative potential so that the electron density is underestimated.

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If you look at your link you will see the ions present that indicate water are all positively charged because electrons have been stripped away so they would not be underestimated.

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The magnetosphere only charges the water vapor molecule and its related ions. Its the earth thats moving the water ions are basically only sitting on the circle of the earth within the magnetosphere.

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On the dark side of the earth the water molecule loses all its heat yet still remains a vapor above the atmosphere.

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These two statements make no sense and show that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about so please don't tell me that I need to understand the magneteosphere when you clearly don't understand either the magnetosphere or kinetic and potential energy or heat of vaporization.RandyEdited by Randy, : No reason given.

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Yes I did hear they have found clams on the top of Mt. Everest

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I would think that someone would have told you by now that the summit of Everest is made up of marine limestone. The fossils, mostly crinoids, are in the rock not on it.

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there is over 1/2 mile of water over the sea mounts in the Pacific Ocean.

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So there are mountains being built up under water in the pacific. How is this relevant to the discussion.

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Either the mountains rose

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Some mountains rise due to upthrust from plate tectonics, other form from volcanoes(which may also be caused by tectonic processes).

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or the oceans settled or both, thats the kind of evidence supports the mountains were all covered and the seamounts were all once above the wave base.

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I am not aware of any evidenc that all sea mounts were once above the "wave base" though sea levels have risen about 120 meters since the peak of the last ice age about 18,000 years ago.

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The gravity abnormalities over the trenches kind of squelches your tecktonic theory in favor of the hydroplate theory.

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Hydroplate theory is total bunk.

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How does your tecktonic plate theory explain the gravity abnormalities over the trenches.

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There are possible explanations within plate tectonics but how are they relevant to your nonsense about a vapor canopy trapped by the magnetoshere as ionized water molecules?

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What happens in space is they build heat exchangers to reject the heat out to space, this is what happens when a super heated molecule is rejected above the atmosphere. Space itself is an insulator however its heat can be rejected out into space.

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The heat is "rejected" through black body radiation, rejected is not exactly the right term but the article is a popularization for those with little knowledge of the science involved. We are not talking about super heated molecules that are "rejected abouve" the atmosphere. A vapor canopy in space can't remain coherent because the water molecules, as gases will just diffuse out into space. Even if they didn't and were somehow held in place they would have potential energy relative to the earth and latent heat of vaporization. Both that latent heat of vaporization and that potential energy must be shed as water falls to earth. The potential energy will be converted to kinetic energy under the influence of gravity and then into heat due to friction against the air. Your idea of having them somehow present in the form of a highly energetic ionized plasma just makes those problems worse.Randy

I am noticing that as well.Randy

But they are. Read the article again. First they are ionized and trapped by a magnetic field 580 times the strength of earth's. Second they are almost certainly being lost from Saturn's "tail" but are being replenished by interaction with Saturn's moons. The source of the water is outgassing from Enceladus.Randy

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The Earths genesis water canopy could well of been the result of the moons water vapor outgassing much like Enceladus to Titan & Saturn robbing of Titan and Enceladus.

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So you are now trying to claim that the flood water could have come from the moon?! You do realize that anything falling to earth from that far in space will hit the earth with a velocity of at least 11,200 m/s don't you? This means that each meter of global water falling to earth from space will carry kinetic energy equal to about 3 x 10^25 J which will be enough to heat the atmosphere to about 6,000 degrees. I guess that ark had a really good air conditioning system.Randy

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Equinox does not want to discuss YEC Geology and the implications that the solar system being young because of Titan magnetosphere still has its water canopy that has not yet disappated into space.

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It's Saturn's magnetosphere not Titan's and 40 ionized water molecules per cc hardly constitutes a water canopy. Further Saturn's magnetic field is about 580 times the strength of earth's. I have not read enough of your posts to know if everything you post is absurd as Ned says but this certainly is and most of the other stuff I have read from you is also absurd. Water from a magetosphere could not provide water for either a YEC or OEC global flood and it has been clearly explained why not. Edited by Randy, : spelling

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OK, please let’s stay on topic. This is not a thread to debate young earth flood geology. There are multiple other threads for that. Young earth flood geology is well known by geologists to be as fraudulent as flat-earth geology (just check the statements by the geological associations). Please, before posting here, please refer to the opening post for a reorientation. Specifically, stating that the whole fossil record is due to the flood, or that zircons prove the earth is 6K years old are off topic. You can have all those discussions - just have them somewhere else.

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It is true that the OEC global flood avoids many of the geological absurdities of the YEC flood but it still has many problems. In addition to the "where did the water come from and where did it go question", there are big issues of biogeography and biodiversity and the fact that there is no real evidence of this global flood in the world's geology. Most OECs seem to accept a local flood. However, wmscott who used to post here seems to be a global flood OEC. His old thread on the subject is closed but you can browse it
HEREI think the water problem is huge for OEC flood models because the source of the water must either be around for the 4.5 billion years of earth history or come from outer space which has huge problems due to kinetic energy considerations.Randy