I heard an interesting new approach to flood geology. In discussing Creationism with a friend (who is an OEC), he stated that he thinks that most (nearly all) geologic features were caused by the deep time, scientific explanations - but that * then* there was a global flood as described in Genesis. This happened sometime after there were humans, but thousands of years before the traditional date of around 2,500 BCE. (Yes, I know this violates the literal reading of the ages and lineages which establish dates, but oh well - I haven’t gotten a clear answer for that yet). Thus, all the questions of “how could a flood have made angular unconformities, or crosscut ripple marks, or fossil sorting (etc.)?” don’t apply, since those all formed by regular geologic means. The only question remaining is what evidence of a worldwide, mountaintopping flood should there be? Of course, something as massive as that would leave a huge amount of evidence, so just of the top of my head, these came up:
*Lack of flood deposition layer. Just like varves, a massive layer with larger rocks below finer silt should cover the world - no such layer exists (in addition, it would have to be uniform in age).
*Uniform layer globally - uniform composition, uniform fossils, etc. K-T boundary is analagous
*Pollen records showing massive plant extinctions of most land plants (not salt tolerant)
*Massive extinction of either saltwater or freshwater fish (pick one), and echinoderms - starfish, etc. List of creatures that wouldn’t be on ark and would be extinct:
Ice worms
* where did all the water come from, and where did it go? (what evidence shows mountains are old?)
*Massive extinction of insects (yes I’ve heard of the vegetation mats)
*Massive bottleneck in all species, including humans (visible to geneticists)
*Very idea that there are “flood stories in all cultures” doesn’t quite fit - since everyone was supposed to drown.
Plus, it was useful & fun to page though this thread: http://
EvC Forum: REAL Flood Geology -->
EvC Forum: REAL Flood Geology
So, what do you think? Sure the idea that there was a global, recent flood over an old earth doesn’t fit the real world, but it at least ignores *less* evidence than the YEC flood geology position ignores. I guess that’s like being a little taller than Danny DeVito - it doesn’t make you tall. Are there other really obvious missing evidences that I don’t have on the list above?
So in summary, two questions come up:
1. What other evidences are there that a recent, global flood would have left?
2. What data points to or refutes possible oldest and youngest dates for this event? (yes, they do seem to quickly overlap, but let’s try anyway).
Perhaps it’s useful to specify which (#1 or #2) each post is about?
P.S. Please do not give examples against the YEC flood geology - we already have a thread on that. Also, though my friend asserts that the Noah story happened, please don’t point out problems just with the Noah story - there are too many to count, and other lists already do that (like this site -
Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition). Lastly, have fun. I’ve already got a good start on the evidence list, and am starting this thread mainly for our enjoyment.
Seems like it’s a no-brainer that this goes into the Flood forum.
-Equinox
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You know, it's probably already answered at
An Index to Creationist Claims...
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