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Author Topic:   I met God
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 108 (376264)
01-11-2007 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kader
01-11-2007 11:43 AM


Just answers? Or Questions?
Are you special ?
Nope.
What about the “others religious” who claim the same thing ?
Religions are Maps. There can be many Maps of the same Territory. Some Maps may be more or less accurate than others.
Why does God only speaks with believers ?
Maybe only some people listen?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kader, posted 01-11-2007 11:43 AM Kader has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Kader, posted 01-11-2007 4:28 PM jar has not replied
 Message 10 by mark24, posted 01-11-2007 5:01 PM jar has replied
 Message 11 by nator, posted 01-11-2007 5:04 PM jar has replied
 Message 12 by Straggler, posted 01-11-2007 5:05 PM jar has replied
 Message 24 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 01-11-2007 7:07 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 108 (376305)
01-11-2007 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by mark24
01-11-2007 5:01 PM


Re: Just answers? Or Questions?
Don't you think the supreme being that created all the mountains & rivers & forests, planets, stars & galaxies would be noticed when he spoke?
I don't know. When I was a child and we were playing, quite often I would arrive home to find I was in trouble cause Mom had been calling me for ever or have a sister or brother tug at my sleeve and say "Mamma's calling!"
Often I would be asked why I didn't do something and reply "'Cause no one said to." only to be told just exactly how wrong I was.
Possibly, like when I was a child, we have selective hearing, hearing only that which we wish to hear.
I have never heard GOD speak to me in loud booming tones or even authoritatively. When GOD speaks to me, if it is GOD, it is in a small quiet voice, in whispers, not shouts.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by mark24, posted 01-11-2007 5:01 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by mark24, posted 01-12-2007 5:38 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 21 of 108 (376307)
01-11-2007 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by nator
01-11-2007 5:04 PM


Re: Just answers? Or Questions?
I listened and I never heard anything.
Is it my fault I can't hear God, or God's fault for not speaking to me in a way I can understand?
Well I am sorry that you have never heard, but I am not sure that it is anyones fault or even really very important.
I have a hearing loss. Likely it is the result of Chicken Pox when I was a child but there is also a genetic tendency on both sides of my family to have tinnitus (which of course I was also lucky enough to get).
The fact that I just plain can't hear things is not my fault. The fact that you have not heard GOD may not be your fault either.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by nator, posted 01-11-2007 5:04 PM nator has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 22 of 108 (376309)
01-11-2007 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Straggler
01-11-2007 5:05 PM


Re: Just answers? Or Questions?
How does your "many maps theory" account for that fact and indeed your own largely Christian (correct me if I am wrong) convictions and subsequent (I assume) belief in Jesus as the son of God?
Way too long an answer required and way too far off topic.
If you want an answer though, start with the thread Message 1.
It is not as unusual a position as you might think though.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Straggler, posted 01-11-2007 5:05 PM Straggler has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 26 of 108 (376325)
01-11-2007 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by AnswersInGenitals
01-11-2007 7:07 PM


Re: Is there a cartographer in the house?
Here I've been thinking that people were killing and torturing each other and going to war over the differences in their religions and the god(s) they believed in.
Very seldom have wars actually been fought over religions or religious belief. Often though religious propaganda has been used to sway the ignorant and add a fascia of legitimacy to wars of conquest or struggles for power. Even the Crusades were not about religion, but rather who would control the profitable ports and the trade routes.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 01-11-2007 7:07 PM AnswersInGenitals has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 01-11-2007 8:28 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 52 of 108 (376466)
01-12-2007 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Kader
01-12-2007 12:40 AM


Re: Love/God
Is it the Biblical God we're talking about ? (Jesus)
Because if it is, then you have a bunch of muslim people who will strongly deny what you just said. (about 1 billions people to be more precise)
I thought we had been over this with you before. That is a pretty silly statement from several perspectives. First, the Biblical GOD is the Muslim God, the God of Abraham, just as it is the Jewish God.
Second, religions are just Maps, they are not the Territory. Christianity is not GOD, Islam is not GOD, Wicca is not GOD.
Now if you want to continue to conflate the Map with the Territory then just like the exclusionist Theists, you will only contribute to misunderstanding, strife and violence.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 12:40 AM Kader has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 10:19 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 53 of 108 (376467)
01-12-2007 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by mark24
01-12-2007 5:38 AM


Re: Just answers? Or Questions?
If the being-that-created-the-cosmos wants to talk to me it should be easy. Why can't I hear him/she/it?
I don't know.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by mark24, posted 01-12-2007 5:38 AM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by mark24, posted 01-12-2007 8:58 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 61 of 108 (376482)
01-12-2007 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Kader
01-12-2007 10:19 AM


Re: Love/God
Now please If you say that God is Jesus (and vice-versa) it is not silly to say that 1 billion muslim will strongly disagree with you.
But I do not say that GOD is Jesus but rather that Jesus is GOD. And yes, Muslims and Jews will disagree with that. But that has nothing to do with the God of Judaism, Islam and Christianity all being the God of Abraham.
Im not saying that christianity is God, I am saying that to go to heaven you have to follow a set of rules, and theses rules contradict themselves from a religion to another.
Yes, you are saying that. I happen to believe that is wrong and guess what, many other Christians would agree with me. The Bible agrees with me. I referred you once before to the thread Message 1. Have you read that yet?
Map vs territory is your belief.
No. Map versus Territory is a basic part of learning semantics and critical thinking. It is not a belief but a necessary tool if you ever want to learn to think critically. For a short but very important book on the subject, read Language in Thought and Action by SI Hayakawa, or the General Principles of semantics laid down by Alfred Korzybski.
Both of those works should be required reading for kids in about the 9th. Grade.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 10:19 AM Kader has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 11:02 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 67 of 108 (376498)
01-12-2007 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Kader
01-12-2007 11:02 AM


Re: Love/God
Map vs Territory in religious belief IS NOT critical thinking.
Of course it is. Trying to keep this somewhat on topic, let me see if I can explain.
If GOD the creator of all, seen and unseen exists, then that is a reality, a Territory. It happens to be a part of reality which we cannot test by definition, since it is Supernatural. That does not mean GOD does not exist, only that at the present time we have no way to test such a reality.
GOD though, if GOD exists, is GOD. GOD is not something we can create, but rather whatever that actuality happens to be.
Religions on the other hand are a creation of man. We create religions. We write the books, the manuals.
They are attempts to portray the reality GOD, but they are human constructs, Maps. They are NOT GOD.
Does every atheist in the world are unable to have any sense of critical thinking ?
Huh?
Any facts at all ?
Huh? I said it was my belief. I said no more than that it was a belief.
Christianity based itself on the bible Islam of the Qu'ran... What you are syaing implies that both Qu'ran and the Bible are wrong and right at the same time.
Not sure I understand what you are asking, but if it is "Do I believe that both the Qur'an and Bible are right", then sure. Both have areas that are likely right, areas where they are wrong. On the issue of whether Jesus is actually divine or just a prophet, neither of us will know for sure while we live.
It suits you to think the great flood didn't happen, and it suits you to believe that jesus existed. You pick and choose what you want to be true. So please believing I am wrong does not make it so. (vice versa of course)
Not quite right. I know that the flood did not happen. All of the evidence shows that there has not been a world-wide flood in at the least, the last 600,000 years. I have no choice in what to believe there, the record is clear. I do not get to pick there, the FACT is that the flood did not happen as described in the Bible.
The same holds true for other issues, the Exodus never happened as described, the Conquest of Canaan never happened as described, the Earth is not just 6000 years old and there was no special creation as described in Genesis.
I don't have a choice in what to believe on those matters. The evidence is overwhelming that they simply didn't happen.
Jesus existence and divinity are another matter. Whether Jesus existed or not is an open question. But as I have said many times (even to you) if we found proof positive that Jesus lived, if we found his expense account that listed every stop, every person he met with, all the bills for the great fish fry, it would still not address the issue of his divinity. I freely admit that I only believe in Jesus' divinity and that I could be wrong.
But to get back on topic, Why does God pick and choose only believers to talk to them.
Do I have to be born and indoctrined in a religious belief for God to speak to me ?
I don't know. I am quite sure that you do not have to be Born Again or any such nonsense since GOD speaks to Jews and Christians and Hindus and Muslims and Wiccans and Taoists and Satanists and Buddhists.
As I pointed out in Message 21, it could just be a hearing problem. It could be selective hearing. It could be that background noise drowns Her out.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 11:02 AM Kader has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 12:07 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 71 of 108 (376504)
01-12-2007 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Kader
01-12-2007 12:07 PM


on voices
How do you tell if someone really heard God's voice or not ?
Once more.
We can't.
I have told you that I believe I talk with GOD. I have also told you that I might be wrong.
So to hear God there is some things to fulfill some special abilities or conviction you must have ?
Once more.
I don't know.
For example, your posts indicate that you have not heard (or read and comprehended) anything I have said or Ringo has said. Based on that I have no problem believing that you also have not heard anything GOD would say to you.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 12:07 PM Kader has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 12:35 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 77 of 108 (376519)
01-12-2007 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Kader
01-12-2007 12:35 PM


Re: on voices
But what do you do when people CLAIM that God spoke to them. And BASED on thoses claims act accordingly ?
You respond accordingly.
God is creating a situation that promotes war and hate.
LOL. Not sure where you get that. You yourself said that you do not think GOD actually spoke to them.
ps : I've heard Jar (and ringo's ?) Answer to my questions.
I'm the problem, I do not listen properly or my current condition makes me unnable to hear him.
More laughs.
No, I did not say that and in fact, you are simply once again supporting what I did say.
I said I don't know why you cannot hear GOD talking to you.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 12:35 PM Kader has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 4:58 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 81 of 108 (376527)
01-12-2007 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by iceage
01-12-2007 12:49 PM


Re: Maps
Having spent a considerable amount of time in the bush and can attest having the wrong map is worse than having no map at all. Also, even misreading the correct map can be worse than having no map in all.
Absolutely true. And that is why I always say that the Map must be tested against the Territory. Just because the Map shows a bridge, it does not mean the bridge has not been washed out or that the road is not closed.
The reason that the analogy is so important is because many folk confuse the Map with the actual Territory. They think GOD is the Biblical God or the God of the Qur'an or the God of the Torah. When that happens they lose sight of the fact that religions really are only Maps, they are not the Reality, the Territory.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by iceage, posted 01-12-2007 12:49 PM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by iceage, posted 01-12-2007 4:15 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 84 of 108 (376541)
01-12-2007 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Kader
01-12-2007 4:58 PM


Re: on voices
So what you are saying is because of my current condition (outside of my control) I cannot hear God or fail to hear his message.
So what you are saying is God is talking to me, im just not hearing.
So God is repetedly failing to get the msg through.
Or Im I again going to far with my extrapolation ?
Once again.
I don't know why you can't hear GOD talking to you.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 4:58 PM Kader has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 5:16 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 86 of 108 (376550)
01-12-2007 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Kader
01-12-2007 5:16 PM


Re: on voices
If you speak with God could you ask him ?
Maybe he'll answer you
I'll ask.
She says She has no idea what your problem is and that not only has She been talking to you, She has been sending you books and prophets and mentors and you still just don't get it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Kader, posted 01-12-2007 5:16 PM Kader has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 96 of 108 (376611)
01-12-2007 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by mark24
01-12-2007 8:58 PM


Re: Just answers? Or Questions?
Moreover, since muslims only hear Allah, Christians Yahweh, & anyone who is pantheistic hears many gods, doesn't that make you a wee bit skeptical that maybe a deity isn't involved at all?
Remember that religions are just Maps, not the Territory. Christianity is not GOD. Nor is Islam GOD.
Why can't GOD speak to people through the Map of their choice?
It isn't like anyone actually SPEAKS to you, after all.
Really? Are you sure?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by mark24, posted 01-12-2007 8:58 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by mark24, posted 01-13-2007 5:24 AM jar has replied

  
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