Ark of the Covenant

I'm sure that most of us have even a nominal familiarity with the Ark of the Covenant. For those that do not, I'll provide a brief synopsis.The Ark of the Covenant is something like a chest completely inlaid with pure gold. The design was specific; asked of Moses by God to build it from Acacia wood and to exact measurements. On the top was to rest to Cherubim situated in a manner as if to be covering Holy God with their wings. Inside was the real treasure, as the Ark is really just a container for the Ten Commandments, which are said to have been penned by the finger of Almighty God. This event began in Mt. Sinai, Egypt. After here, the Ark was transported through the tabernacle only by Levitical priests. The Ark made its way from Mt. Sinai to Jerusalem under the directorate of King David. Its eventually placed in Solomon's temple, inside the tabernacle, covered in the veiled room, the Holy of Holies. However, from about the time of 1000 BC, it disappears and is not mentioned in the texts that were to follow. Interestingly, the Babylonians invaded during that time and were reputed to have plundered Israel completely. It was assumed that the Babylonians had taken the Ark. But if they had it, then why is it still missing today?Another theory had surfaced. It was reported by some that the Israelites caught wind of the impending invasion and took the Ark deep into Hezekiah's tunnel-- a subterranean cavern that exists even to this day. But even if it was taken through the tunnel to safety, where did it go to? Where is it today?The story states that the Queen of Sheba had heard of Solomon's wisdom and visited him in Jerusalem. This meeting is recorded in the Bible. However, after this time, the legend begins that Sheba and Solomon conceived a child named, Menelik, who was born in Jerusalem. After this time, Sheba and Menelik are said to have gone back to Ethiopia (named Ophir in Biblical days).Once Menelik had come of age, the legend states that he returned to Israel to see his father Solomon. His father is said to have known that danger approached and so he had entrusted his son to take the Ark to safety in Ophir. From here it is said to have resided in Debra Domo, which is the largest repository of Christian and Judaic manuscripts on the continent of Africa today.According to oral tradition, that was later annotated in the Kebra Nagast, the Ark was said to have been transported to the island of Tana Kirkos, which is the plot of land seen in this image surrounded by Lake Tana. The island was said to have been selected for its optimal safety. The island itself doubles as a fortress because its formed in the shape of a mesa with a very steep rockface on all sides. The mesa allows for high visibility where the monks can see well in advance any raiders coming into the area and can implement their contingency plans accordingly.What lends credence to the theory is that to this day, numerous relics from Judaic and early Christian artifacts from exist today under the care of the monks inhabiting the island. There is also socket holes in the ground where the Ark was said to have rested. The socket holes are reputed to have held up the Holy of Holies. The spacing between the socket holes is an exact measurement according to the strict standards provided by the Bible, which is 15 x 15.As well, they have in their possession something known as a "gomer," which is an all bronze basin used to collect the blood of sacrificed animals in Judaism. What's interesting about this is that Judaism has ceased animal sacrifice for over 2,000 years. How would a group of Ethiopians have an authenticated piece of antiquity, such as a gomer, unless it really was brought to them by Levitical priests on an odyssey to save the Ark?This is where it is said to have resided for hundreds of years. However, during the 4^th century AD, while Christianity was spreading through Africa, it was said to have been moved yet again under the directive of King Azana of Ethiopia to Akksum, Ethiopia. This is supposedly the final resting place of the Ark to this very day.It is reported that it is housed at St. Mary's of Zion church. This church inside a gated community with armed guards. Inside this gated city resides the church which is surrounded by wrought iron bars. The Guardian of the Ark is the only human being allowed to ever see the Ark. His life is completely devoted to its care and he never leaves the premise for any reason. Since he was called to duty, he has never set foot anywhere else but within the confines of the church grounds. He was selected because he is said to come from a Levitcal line of priests. When he dies, a worthy member of the same line will do as he does, just like those who have gone before him.What are your thoughts on this? Does the actual Ark of the Covenant reside in Akksum, Ethiopia to this day? Do they only think they have the actual Ark or is it the real deal? Did such an Ark ever really exist? If so, did God make it disappear so as to not be worshipped as God Himself? What are your thoughts?

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

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The Ark made its way from Mt. Sinai to Jerusalem under the directorate of King David.

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Why is that incorrect? Or should I say, "what" about the statement is incorrect?"After David had constructed buildings for himself in the City of David, he prepared a place for the ark of God and pitched a tent for it. Then David said, "No one but the Levites may carry the ark of God, because the LORD chose them to carry the ark of the LORD and to minister before him forever."

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David assembled all Israel in Jerusalem to bring up the ark of the LORD to the place he had prepared for it. He called together the descendants of Aaron and the Levites" -1^st Chronicles 15:1-4 Yes, the Babylonians invaded in during this time and returned the plundered items in 538 BC. What did I say contrary to this? I actually didn't even mention the time frame when the Babylonians invaded. The only number I proved was that when David brought the Ark to Jerusalem. After that time, there was no mention of it for about 450 years. It was presumed that the Babylonians must have taken it. But when they brought back the relics 538 BC, the Ark was not among the plundered items. The question is did they take it and keep it? Or was the Ark clandestinely moved before this time and unrecorded to keep its whereabouts safe? I would agree that no external evidence exists about the Ark. As far as the Temple is concerned, are you referring to the first temple, the second, or both? No, that's alright. I'm well aware who Ron Wyatt is. He and I don't see eye to eye.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This is true. I just meant that it was David that ordered it to Jerusalem.

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Yes, the Babylonians invaded in during this time and returned the plundered items in 538 BC. What did I say contrary to this?

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However, from about the time of 1000 BC, it disappears and is not mentioned in the texts that were to follow. Interestingly, the Babylonians invaded during that time and were reputed to have plundered Israel completely.

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After reading a second time, I can see where the confusion was. The problem was in my wording. My apologies. I should probably change that. As far as physical evidence of the first temple, I don't know if any exist. However, the Bible makes it clear that Phoenicians were employed to help with the architecture and construction of the Temple. To give the Temple more credence, there is an extra-biblical account inscribed on the Moabite Stone.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

It doesn't. We were getting off track. Brian said that neither the ark or the first Temple have any credibility as to their existence, which prompted me to post information on the Moabite Stone.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

Because it mentions by name "The House of David," that could have any number of meanings assigned to it. That could mean the Temple, that could mean Jerusalem, or that could mean any member of devout Jews, or could mean Israelites as a whole. After a more careful review, I doubt highly that it is referring to the Temple, but rather, about Jewish brotherhood. For instance, "the House of Togarmah," just means, "Armenians." Its an ancient way of speaking about where one lives in relation to a famous ruler of that land named in their honor.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

Such as? Why would that be obviously untrue? People once thought that the earth was obviously flat. That's certainly a possibility. But have you ever noticed that detractors of the Bible claim that everything is a tale? Or if it isn't entirely a tale, its greatly embellished? That's a whole lot of tales? One would reason that out of so many tales coming from the same region, that at least a few of them are actually true.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

In my post I went over one possible scenario that may or may not be true. The common theory is that it currently resides in Akksum, Ethipopia. This is certainly a possibility for an unbeliever. For some believers, that's not possible because to be unholy and gaze upon the ark means that you will die instantly out of sheer irreverence. Because Israel is a hostile place and the levitical priests, according to extra-biblical sources, grew weary with the impending danger surrounding Israel and decided to take the Ark and the single most holy relic, the 10 Commandments, to a safe haven in Ophir. Yes, that would be great, except, there is some uncertainty as to what would happen to them if it really were the Ark. Would they die? Even if they didn't die, how would they conclude that it was actually the Ark and not a replica? Even dating the object gives no guarantee that it is the actual Ark. Which means that it still boils down to belief.There is another theory. Since the Ark is the representation of the Mashiac, the Ark no longer serves its function a temporary glory for God. Like Moses' body, it is theorized that God compelled the Ark to be forever lost, so that people would not worship the Ark itself, but remember that they were representations of God. Now that we are called to worship Jesus in spirit, the physical representations have fulfilled its purpose and we are under no obligatory compulsion to honor it beyond its current worth. Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : typo

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

You may very well be right. Personally, the fact that the Ark is no longer around is probably a good thing. I mean, we see how people act when what looks like the image of Jesus appears on the side of burrito. Imagine how much more they'd act like if the Ark is around.If it really is there, they are doing a disservice to their own community by broadcasting that information. I thought the whole point to taking it there clandestinely was to be, oh, I don't know... clandestine? Why now all the fanfare? No, it sure wouldn't. Well, maybe not unless people started dying because they looked at it or touched it. That might convince a few people in close proximity. But at the end of the day, even if they had the real Ark, it'll just be the same argument rehashed over again and again. There will always be someone who doesn't believe it. Kind of like these conspiracy theorists who, after the man was dead for five minutes, concocted some vagary about how Saddam is still really alive. That's how some people are about everything. Because unless they were there when the Ark was forged, some people would prefer that such a thing was never actually made.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

Nope. I've never met one Bhagavad Gita detractor in my life, which is likely why I've never noticed such a thing.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

There is always a measure of truth in any religion, even if much or most is embellished. Concerning things like the Ark, King David, either of the two Temples, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, etc: What is the likelihood that all of those do not have their foundation in actual human history? Believing in their existence, or once existence, doesn't in any way infer that God must somehow be real if these items are too. The bible is a historical document that's proven itself reliable for its historical value. If one were to claim that it is not a reliable spiritual document, that would be a matter of debate. But there isn't much reason to challenge the historicity of the Ark. Its one thing to challenge to challenge "Chariots of fire in the sky," or "talking donkeys," but its another thing entirely to challenge the ark or the Temple? No, it means some things in Norse religion, particularly the people, are probably rooted in truth. I agree with this. Like I said, even supposing the Ethiopians have the real Ark in their possession, there's always going to be someone to challenge it, whether their criticisms are founded or unfounded is the only question we should deal with. Suppose they have an exact replica. Afterall, the exact measurements and description is provided in the book of Exodus. Even if a replica Ark dated back to the time of Moses , there might no way to know for certain if its the actual Ark or just a replica. Unless, of course, people's faces start to melt like the Nazi's in Indiana Jones. That might sway my decision.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

I enjoy every one of these topics listed immensely, however, my thread has already derailed enough as it is. If you'd like to discuss these other aspects, please open a new thread.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

I'm stating that I have little knowledge on Bahavigad Gita. I can't make fair assessments or pronouncements on things that I know little about. Conversely, I believe many of the Bible's most scathing critics only have a nominal familiarity with it, thus rendering their opinion of it null and void.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

Well, this apart of the thread that I was hoping would come up. My concern is, even supposing the Ethiopians have the Ark, would any one here believe was the actual Ark or just a replica based on the description provided by Moses? What would it take in order for you to believe that it was actually the Ark? For face value I certainly agree. But I have to wonder how it is they've become so dedicated. Whether they have the Ark or not doesn't take away from the fact that they seem to genuinely believe it. The "Guardian" is completely devoted to something. Something of great value is in that Church. I can't help but wonder what it is.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

I'm making a declaration that the Bible has stood up to scrutiny. If you want to challenge that as it relates to the Ark, by all means discuss it here, as its the appropriate thread. If you want to contest the bible in any other capacity, then open a new thread. Awaiting responses? I've answered every one on this thread. And what exactly makes you come to the conclusion that my knowledge of the Ark is limited when most of what we've been talking about is on anything but the topic of discussion? *turns the other cheek*

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

I'm just asserting that many of them wouldn't really know either way because they fly by the seat of their pants. Many critics of the bible often don't have a good grasp on it in order to speak authoritatively on the matter. And because I know little about the Hindu religion, I'm trying to lead by example by not flaming something I know little about. I don't question the historicity of any objects or places in the Hindu religion. I would have to compare or contrast before I could fairly speak for or against it. As for this topic, I haven't even given my opinion on whether the Ark comes from God or if it has supernatural power. All I am asking is whether or not any one believes that the Ark is in Ethiopia, and if not, to provide reasons for the incredulity. Some have chosen to question whether or not such an Ark ever existed, which is perfectly applicable to the topic. I've yet to hear any real reasons for why, however. I'm not pleading with any one to believe anything that I do about the Ark. I'm asking the opinions of others and to find out the reason for the belief or disbelief. Soon, if we can stay focused, I will provide my own belief on this matter.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis