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note: this discussion has turned for the better;read pgs/Where do the laws come from?

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Author Topic:   note: this discussion has turned for the better;read pgs/Where do the laws come from?
RickJB
Member (Idle past 5021 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006

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Message 53 of 120 (357634)
10-20-2006 4:24 AM 		Reply to: Message 8 by Hyroglyphx
10-19-2006 2:38 AM

Re: No easy answers
NJ writes:
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But whatever it is, for me, fortuitous is a word that I can no longer comprehend-- but oblation is. And I find myself reciting the words of King David. "The fool hath said in his heart, 'there is no God."
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Some nice universal sentiments there, NJ, until you used a quotation to insinuate that atheists are fools....
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It's a shame you are unable ponder life's mysteries without the arrogant certainty that you must be right.
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Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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 Message 54 by iano, posted 10-20-2006 5:03 AM RickJB has replied
  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 5021 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006

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Message 55 of 120 (357640)
10-20-2006 6:39 AM 		Reply to: Message 54 by iano
10-20-2006 5:03 AM

Re: No easy answers
Iano writes:
​
Ditto (in a kettle/pot/black sense)
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Erm, no.
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I fully accept that there are things that neither science or anything else understands. I also accept that my views with regards to these things is most likely wrong.
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 Message 54 by iano, posted 10-20-2006 5:03 AM iano has replied
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RickJB
Member (Idle past 5021 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006

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Message 57 of 120 (357646)
10-20-2006 7:23 AM 		Reply to: Message 56 by iano
10-20-2006 7:02 AM

Re: No easy answers
I was referring to the arrogance that supposes that because you are prepared to accept that you could well be wrong about certain things that everyone else must accept that they might be wrong about certain things too.
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No.
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It's not arrogant to suggest that someone might be wrong. Nor is it arrogant to suggest that everyone must be aware of such a thing. It is an entirely logical possibility. If any given problem has a limited number of solutions then some answers will be nescessarily be incorrect.
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 Message 56 by iano, posted 10-20-2006 7:02 AM iano has replied
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RickJB
Member (Idle past 5021 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006

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Message 59 of 120 (357668)
10-20-2006 9:01 AM 		Reply to: Message 58 by iano
10-20-2006 8:02 AM

Re: No easy answers
Iano writes:
​
But if it, and thus he, are right then whats arrogant about it?
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I doesn't matter whether they right or wrong. They simply have no grounds to know they are right. We ARE talking about life's "mysteries" after all!
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In any case, we've been over this before. You feel that you "know" what you believe. That's fine by me, just don't expect your "knowledge" to count for anything whatsoever to me or anyone else.
​
Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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 Message 58 by iano, posted 10-20-2006 8:02 AM iano has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by iano, posted 10-20-2006 9:19 AM RickJB has replied
  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 5021 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006

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Message 61 of 120 (357681)
10-20-2006 9:29 AM 		Reply to: Message 60 by iano
10-20-2006 9:19 AM

Re: No easy answers
Iano writes:
​
Empiricism has no solid grounds by defintion - there is nothing possible outside empiricism to verify that philosophy is true.
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Not so faith.
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Which faith, Iano?
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Iano writes:
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You have no grounds to call NJ arrogant.
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Which faith?
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Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by iano, posted 10-20-2006 9:19 AM iano has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by iano, posted 10-20-2006 9:36 AM RickJB has replied
 Message 68 by Archer Opteryx, posted 10-20-2006 12:02 PM RickJB has not replied
  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 5021 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006

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Message 63 of 120 (357690)
10-20-2006 10:11 AM 		Reply to: Message 62 by iano
10-20-2006 9:36 AM

Re: No easy answers
Iano writes:
​
Your missing the point. You can have no grounds given empiricism, per definition, can have no grounds. Faith can, per definition, have grounds.
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All it takes is for
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a) God to exist
b) God to communicate with man.
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It can have grounds and it can make the statements without being necessarily arrogant. You said it was arrogant which denied the possibility of grounds.
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One can say you are being arrogant - for you can have no grounds. But one cannot be so sure in the opposite direction.
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Iano, it is you who has totally missed the point. I freely admit I have no "grounds" for any assumptions about the unknown.
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You, like NJ, on the other hand continue to stubbornly assert that your faith is "the answer" because you think it is "the answer". A classic circular argument.
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You could not have demonstrated my point in a more elegant way!
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You also dodged the question about which faith you were referring to. There are any number of ideas regarding those things which lie beyond our current understanding. So I'll ask again, which faith do you mean?
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Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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