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Author | Topic: Was the Hebrew God unique? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
deerbreh Member (Idle past 2923 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
I am proposing a new topic - probably should go in Comparative Religions to discuss whether it was a new thing for a people to present their God as omnicient and omnipotent as the Hebrews did with Yahweh. When did this happen and was it a new thing? Or do all peoples consider their god to be omnicient and omnipotent? This topic proposal was prompted by this post by Faith in the "Logic" thread. Faith's post and my response(which I deleted because it was off topic):
Faith writes:
The God of Western tradition is omniscient and omnipotent. Pretty common knowledge. Pagan gods are generally local and finite. Pretty common knowledge.
deer writes: I find these statement quite interesting. Unfortunately also quite offtopic here but it might be worth a PNT if others find it interesting. I could be wrong but I believe the Hebrews were among the first people to present their God as a global God rather than just a local Hebrew God.
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AdminFaith Inactive Member |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
whether it was a new thing for a people to present their God as omnicient and omnipotent as the Hebrews did with Yahweh. God Himself presented Himself to the Hebrews. It wasn't their idea.
When did this happen and was it a new thing? Or do all peoples consider their god to be omnicient and omnipotent? Only Islam has the same view of God.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 764 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
The Hebrew God didn't start out as omnipotent and omniscient - just the studliest of the various gods that were around back then. He couldn't prevail against chariots of iron, for example. And he didn't know how many righteous people there were in Sodom until he apparently counted them after Abraham talked Him down from fifty to ten.
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CK Member (Idle past 4158 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
But the Islamic God was omnipotent from the start wasn't he?
If memory serves me correct, that's an add-on for the hebrew god wasn't it because he was turned back by Iron Chariots and the like (em.. Jdg 1:19) I'm sure there is also a reference to God failing to kill someone? (anyone?)
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The God of the OT was not considered all powerful or all knowing. The depictions of God though change as the tales of the Bible were written. Over time, the depiction of God changed from one of many and restricted by local and peoples to some more universal being. But even today there are aspects of omniscient and omnipotent that cannot be reconciled with other aspects of God and so it is not something universally accepted even within Christianity.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
I'm sure there is also a reference to God failing to kill someone? (anyone?) Exodus 4:24? And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the LORD met him, and sought to kill him. Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
I suppose we could also say that God (Jesus) failed to keep any promises He made.
Brian.
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CK Member (Idle past 4158 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
That's his "I'm just popping out for a bit but honest my plans will be achieved in your lifetime?" promise isn't it?*
* the bible is a bit more wordy than this on the subject.
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deerbreh Member (Idle past 2923 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
God Himself presented Himself to the Hebrews. It wasn't their idea. Nevertheless, there were Hebrew teachers and Hebrew writers who taught about and wrote about Yahweh to their people, however they were inspired. That's all I meant in that statement. Please don't allow a quest for doctrinal purity to sidetrack this thread.
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deerbreh Member (Idle past 2923 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
The God of the OT was not considered all powerful or all knowing. The depictions of God though change as the tales of the Bible were written. Over time, the depiction of God changed from one of many and restricted by local and peoples to some more universal being. But even today there are aspects of omniscient and omnipotent that cannot be reconciled with other aspects of God and so it is not something universally accepted even within Christianity. Before I take this at face value, how is God not all powerful (AP) and all knowing (AK) in Genesis? Except for giving man free will, which presumabely he could take away again if he wanted to, it seems to me that the Genesis God is very much AP and AK. If we accept your statement, when did the transition to AP and AK take place (putting aside for the moment the apparent contracictions).
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 764 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
it seems to me that the Genesis God is very much AP and AK. Not so much:
Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. 9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
In Genesis it is clear that God didn't know everything, Genesis 3:8-11 perhaps the best examples.
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?" God didn't know where they were hiding. And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?" God didn't know who told them they were naked AND He didn't know if they had ate the fruit or not. Brian.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Photo finish !!!!
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Before I take this at face value, how is God not all powerful (AP) and all knowing (AK) in Genesis? Except for giving man free will, which presumabely he could take away again if he wanted to, it seems to me that the Genesis God is very much AP and AK. If you look at the God of Genesis 1 you can see that sort of God, although even there He is lacking foreknowledge. The God of Genesis 2 is quite different. In Genesis 2 for example He doesn't know what would make a suitable companion for Adam, even though it appears that he made the other critters in pairs. He doesn't know where the kiddies are hiding, who told them to eat of the tree of knowledge, fears what might happen if the also eat from the tree of life and has to put angels at the gates to keep folk out.
If we accept your statement, when did the transition to AP and AK take place (putting aside for the moment the apparent contracictions). It realy never happens in the Bible. Remember that all we get are glimpses of how God is seen by given people or peoples at particular moments. The idea of all seeing, all knowing, all powerful and with all foreknowledge is a fairly modern one and while often simply tossed out there, one that I have never seen supported without creating a God or cruelty and denying free will. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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