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Author Topic:   Was the Hebrew God unique?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 46 of 53 (332582)
07-17-2006 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Brian
07-17-2006 10:51 AM


Re: Jesus multilingual genius
Brian writes:
Since the conversation was held in private between Jesus and Pilate....
Another possibility is that it's just a plot-hole.
(Was Pilate in the habit of having private conversations with prisoners?)

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Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 47 of 53 (332589)
07-17-2006 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by ringo
07-17-2006 3:13 PM


plot hole
Another possibility is that it's just a plot-hole.
I don;t think for a second that the conversation actually took place, the problem of which language the conversation is just one of the clues that it is a work of fiction. Other clues? Well, who recorded the convo if only Jesus and Pilate were the only two people present?
(Was Pilate in the habit of having private conversations with prisoners?)
Not that I am aware of, and also the so-called custom of letting a prisoner go at Passover is laughable and has no foundation in reality. Who in their right mind would think that the Romans would free someone such as Barabbas, an alleged 'notorious' prisoner and possible murderer?
In fact, the whole arrest, trial, and crucifixion narratives reek of fiction.
I recall posting this topic a while ago, it has some interesting info.
Brian.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 48 of 53 (332597)
07-17-2006 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Brian
07-17-2006 3:31 PM


Re: plot hole
Ah yes.. interesting name, barabbas.. or 'bar abbas.' aremeic for 'Son of the Father'.
Gosh, who in christian belief is the 'son of the father'. Hum. I can't remember.

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 49 of 53 (332602)
07-17-2006 4:03 PM


Can we get back on track? -Hebrew view of God
I would never have brought up the "abba" point if I had known it was going to send the discussion veering off into the languages that Jesus may or not have spoken. The point was to illustrate how the view of God changes depending on where one is in scripture. The all powerful God is exchanged for a more personal God even in the OT but particularly as we transition from the OT to the NT. The depiction of a personal God is reflective of wanting to emphasize that man has a choice and that choosing God is to choose a nurturing figure such as a mother eagle and yes, a daddy. I disagree with you there Faith but rather than side track things, here is a source that discusses the meaning of "abba" The Name of God: Abba
It is almost as if the Gospel writer is trying to emphasize the shift in thinking from the omnipotent Law giving God of the OT to a more nurturing God who can only be understood if we become like children. It also may have undermined the "Chosen People" idea, because if the Law is not "where it's at" it becomes even easier to make the case that God is for the whole world, not just the Hebrews. And Jesus was promoting this. It is no wonder the Pharisees were outraged. Their outrage turns out to be well placed, from the standpoint of defending the Law, and thus Yahweh, as after his death and Resurection Christ's followers proceeded to welcome gentiles into the new Christian church.
Edited by deerbreh, : No reason given.

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 50 of 53 (332604)
07-17-2006 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by ramoss
07-17-2006 3:59 PM


Re: plot hole
Yes, Barabbas is a counterpoint to Jesus the Son of God. God arranges things so that such interesting comparisons show up in reality. The people chose the son of the father of lies over the Son of God.

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 51 of 53 (332605)
07-17-2006 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Brian
07-17-2006 3:31 PM


Again interesting but start your own discussion
This discussion is about the Hebrew view of God and how it may have changed as well as whether the Hebrew view of God was unique. If you want to discuss the language of Jesus or the crucifixion narratives, please propose your own topic.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 52 of 53 (332629)
07-17-2006 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
07-17-2006 4:07 PM


Re: plot hole
Well, that is an interesting interpretation of it.
Doesn't fit the text, but it is an interesting interpretation.

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Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 53 of 53 (332756)
07-18-2006 3:01 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by macaroniandcheese
07-17-2006 3:12 PM


Re: Jesus multilingual genius
So we don't go off topic in Deer's thread, I have answered your post on this thead.

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