Jared v. Hovind

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Combine that with my impression that most of his seminars have that "used care salesman/pyramid scheme/rapid fire handy-dandy-mixer-dicer" look and feel, I would hope that most YECs would at least disown him in favor of the more legitimate YEC resources like AIG and ICR that are at least capable of abandoning arguments that are so long refuted as to be rediculous.

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Unfortunately, from personal experience and also general observation, many devout fundy-types tend to simply accept and believe anyone who shares their religious beliefs, no matter how preposterous their claims are.I had a Mormon friend who used to send me all of these silly urban legend warning e-mails that had been circulated among her curch driends. I finally got concerned enough to start doing a few minutes research on them, found that they were drivel and sent replies to my friend and all of the people on the forward list.She was FURIOUS with me for giving her better, more reputable information because it contradicted what her nice, implicitly-trusted religious friends told her. I thought she and all of her friends would want to know that, according to current research, using deoderant probably did not give women a higher risk of getting breast cancer, but I guess not.No good deed goes unpunished.Political true-believers are exactly the same way, BTW.

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No, I don't follow Hovind. But I know from experience that creationists may be accused of being deceitful when they are not.

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Which is worse; being so willfully ignorant and stupid that you promote extremely wrong facts and ideas even though you have been demonstrated to be wrong many times, or being such a good con-man that you are able to take advantage of many people's ignorance and gullibility in order to make a living?

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From personal experience and also general observation, many highly educated secular science fundy-types tend to simply accept and believe what they've been taught, no matter how preposterously illogical their claims are.

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Lemme guess.You've never been in the presence of any two (or more) scientists in the same field of expertise, have you Buz?You've also completely ignored all of the corrections, debates, and outright fights that we science-minded folks get into with each other over evidence and interpretation and whatnot.Contrary to what you think, people with high levels of education tend to blindly accept much less of what they are told simply because they have the intellect, training, and practice to think for themselves.Why do you hate intellectuals so much?

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Ph.D is a Ph.D no matter where it comes from.

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No, it really isn't.

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What about the mediocre Ph.D's from prestigious universities?

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It is well-known within each academic field which PhD programs and which particular professors/researchers are at the top of the pile, quality-wise.Also, remember that at least in the sciences you have publications and original research that you have conducted that all of your peers and prospective employers can examine to see how your work is going.The work is actually more interesting to most employers than where your degree came from.

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I have to agree, Inkorrekt. Were it not for Hovind, Gish, Morris, and a host of other counterparts, regardless of their faults, the established science would be left much less accountable for their own claims.

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In your dreams does the scientific community pay this much attention to any of those science-hating religious wackos.I am almost certain that the vast majority of scientific researchers have never even heard of Gish, Morris, Hovind, and the rest.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-25-2006 03:13 PMThis message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-25-2006 03:14 PM

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Scientific fraud is common. The resaons are many. The quest for Tenure and grants is so serious that people are willing to do anything. Who has the time and money to verify the authenticity and claims of those who publish papers? That means, we are left with false data and wrong conclusions. So much for competitive endeavor.

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Ink, I would very much like to discuss these claims of yours in another thread.In fact, I propose that just you and I make it a great debate topic, although I'd also participate happily in a regular thread on the subject.Please reply and indicate if you are willing.

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Scientific fraud is common. The resaons are many. The quest for Tenure and grants is so serious that people are willing to do anything. Who has the time and money to verify the authenticity and claims of those who publish papers? That means, we are left with false data and wrong conclusions. So much for competitive endeavor.

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Ink, I would very much like to discuss these claims of yours in another thread.In fact, I propose that just you and I make it a great debate topic, although I'd also participate happily in a regular thread on the subject.Please reply and indicate if you are willing.