Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,929 Year: 4,186/9,624 Month: 1,057/974 Week: 16/368 Day: 16/11 Hour: 4/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is US Establishing An Islamic Theocracy In Iraq?
Tal
Member (Idle past 5708 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 42 of 58 (276091)
01-05-2006 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
01-02-2006 5:26 PM


Well, the answer to the question in the title is of course, yes. It's an almost certainity that we will see an Islamic Theocracy in Iraq. That was obvious to everyone from even before the invasion.
The answer to the question in the title is of course, no. I see you say it is yes, but list no reasons as to why you have to come to that conclusion. While the Iraq constitution has verbage in there of God and religion, so does the US constitution. I will now list reasons why the answer is no.
Constitution of Iraq - Wikipedia
From chapter 1:
Iraq is an independent nation, and its system of government is a democratic, federal, representative republic.
Islam is the national religion and a basic foundation for the country's laws; however, freedom of religion is upheld.
This will pretty much shut any argument down about Iraq being an Arab theocracy. It is a representative republic. Mullah's cannot come to power just because they have spiritual authority. They must be voted in by the poeple.
Freedom of religion is also a fact that rebutts Iraq being an Islamic Theocracy. They are basing their laws on Islamic law, much like the US based its laws on Christain law.
Before the Iraqi war, Sunis ruled Iraq.
Well, not really. Iraq was ruled by the Baath Party which was very secular, the most secular in the Arab world. It was pretty obvious that outlawing the secular party would lead to a Theocracy.
Yes really, the Sunnis ruled Iraq.
My concern is that the problems we are having with Iran will be highly increased to include an empowered Iraq if these two Shi'a nations become allied and powerful.
Very likely. That was the most obvious likely outcome for Bush's actions. It was almost a certainity.
You speak of this in the past tense like it has already happened. It has not, except for maybe in your mind.

"Damn. I could build a nuclear bomb, given the fissionable material, but I can't tame my computer." (1VB)Jerome - French Rocket Scientist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 01-02-2006 5:26 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by nator, posted 01-05-2006 2:19 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 45 by jar, posted 01-05-2006 2:24 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 47 by Theodoric, posted 01-05-2006 3:39 PM Tal has replied
 Message 48 by Silent H, posted 01-05-2006 3:42 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5708 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 55 of 58 (276349)
01-06-2006 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Theodoric
01-05-2006 3:39 PM


Thomas Jefferson made it very clear that the constitution was not based on christian law.
The three branches of the U.S. Government: Judicial, Legislative, Executive
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22
“For the LORD is our judge,
the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” John Jay (In case you didn't know, he was the US's first Chief Justice) Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity . I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
” “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
-John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
“Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
-- John Quincy Adams, 1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.
Now onto
While technically true, it is playing with the facts. Yes the Baath party was dominated by people that were Sunnis. These were secular, non-religious Sunnis. You are trying to intimate that the Sunnis in power were the same as religious Sunnis. Not true.
Here is what I know, if you get captured by Shia then you probably have a good chance of survival. If you get captured by Sunnis, you WILL have your head cut off. I have seen many more beheading videos that have not been released to the public. I honestly couldn't tell if the Sunnis were religous or not.

"Damn. I could build a nuclear bomb, given the fissionable material, but I can't tame my computer." (1VB)Jerome - French Rocket Scientist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Theodoric, posted 01-05-2006 3:39 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Silent H, posted 01-09-2006 12:36 PM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5708 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 57 of 58 (277720)
01-10-2006 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Silent H
01-09-2006 12:36 PM


Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government
See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America’s Christian History: The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater]
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.grasstopsusa.net/Heritage/leaders.html
Another link.

"Damn. I could build a nuclear bomb, given the fissionable material, but I can't tame my computer." (1VB)Jerome - French Rocket Scientist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Silent H, posted 01-09-2006 12:36 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Silent H, posted 01-10-2006 12:49 PM Tal has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024