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Author Topic:   Ok. Why not. Let's teach ID in Science class!
rogerw1
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 87 (262823)
11-24-2005 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ohnhai
10-21-2005 11:36 PM


Re: but teach it with all its prolems, errors and miss-representations.
I decided to go back to college at 38 to finish my degree. I decided to take anthropology . I grew up in a religious back ground . I wanted to make up my own mind about evolution. After taking the class I thought it would be clear to me . The class starts out the concept of evolution .
NSTA recommends that:
1."Science curricula and teachers should emphasize evolution in a
2.manner commensurate with its importance as a unifying concept in science and its overall explanatory power.
3.Policy-makers and administrators should not mandate policies requiring the teaching of creation science or related concepts such as so-called "intelligent design," "abrupt appearance," and "arguments against evolution."
4.Science teachers should not advocate any religious view about creation, nor advocate the converse: that there is no possibility of supernatural influence in bringing about the universe as we know it. Teachers should be nonjudgmental about the personal beliefs of students.
4.Administrators should provide support to teachers as they design and implement curricula that emphasize evolution. This should include inservice education to assist teachers to teach evolution in a comprehensive and professional manner. Administrators also should support teachers against pressure to promote nonscientific views or to diminish or eliminate the study of evolution.
5.Parental and community involvement in establishing the goals of science education and the curriculum development process should be encouraged and nurtured in our democratic society. However, the professional responsibility of science teachers and curriculum specialists to provide students with quality science education should not be bound by censorship, pseudoscience, inconsistencies, faulty scholarship, or unconstitutional mandates.
6.Science text books shall emphasize evolution as a unifying concept. Publishers should not be required or volunteer to include disclaimers in textbooks concerning the nature and study of evolution.
I am sorry to say I finished the class with more questions than I had before. almost every article makes a reference to the book of genesis . It seems to me this is a poor way of teaching .by back door trashing of the word of god . why does this have to be done . your science people right you have the proof right ?I am starting to believe science and religion are just milking this for grant money and donations I want the data the empirical evidence . I agree evolution has the advantage because of bones fragments found supposedly older than the bible. who is to say the bible is true we dont know do we. ID has no place in the schools but in the same way the very articles o evolution theory within by , gould, bernstine, dettwyler,just name a few put a negative spin on creation.
This is wrong just teach the science . I got so tired of reference to the book of genesis . Maybe this is the problem scientist should revise there text spot the bashing of god . because that's what it comes down to and they cannot do anything about because the schools policy on religion . a far as i concerned evolution theory has may hole in it .
what to believe darwin, gould, we can even decide on whom the direct acesisters to homo sapiens are .also the variance of classifications between scientists of hominid or hominim. evolution still boils down to faith in what you believe . man wrote the bible i don't believe everything it says .
I do believe in the ideology of god and the ten commandments that's what we a race represent . ideas of right and wrong and the laws of the land .
Leave this debate between the two rest . because the end result just might not be what your looking for . if there's no god there's no rules anymore .we have people going to court now say in god we trust on money violates his civil rights this is crazy nor did we come from a fish . the fact is we will never know it all . teach us dont waste our time with bs in between thank you
Roger Williams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ohnhai, posted 10-21-2005 11:36 PM ohnhai has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Nuggin, posted 12-28-2005 10:54 AM rogerw1 has replied
 Message 66 by Rrhain, posted 12-29-2005 6:36 AM rogerw1 has replied

rogerw1
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 87 (262825)
11-24-2005 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by nator
11-02-2005 9:47 AM


Re: What is biology class for?
i just took anthropology your statment is dead on correct screwed up . Scientist do care about that they care about there grant money . no controversy no grant money. same aspect applies to the other side.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by nator, posted 11-02-2005 9:47 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by nator, posted 12-29-2005 8:45 AM rogerw1 has replied

rogerw1
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 87 (273720)
12-29-2005 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Nuggin
12-28-2005 10:54 AM


Re: Anthropology apology
Thanks you answered my question. I understand what your saying .I believe anthropology as a science presents strong evidence in itself in continuing its research in evolution. I see the problem the other side has with this also, when references are made and compared in regard to religous beliefs it is a oneway street . Most of the students are young and the future of our evolution. this is an attack on their beliefs . You are the only on on the disscusion site that can come out and admitted "let me say that they really don't "need" to mention the book of Genesis when discussing evolution " when others come to this realization and just teach the science there is no more battlefield there nothing left to argue . both sides win . My fear is if the two subjects arent totally seperated we all lose. I rambled on more than I wanted to here . I respect you reply if there were more teachers with your view we would be better off thanks again

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Nuggin, posted 12-28-2005 10:54 AM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
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rogerw1
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 87 (273759)
12-29-2005 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Rrhain
12-29-2005 6:14 AM


Re: Anthropology apology
we were refering to my college class. just to let you know

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Rrhain, posted 12-29-2005 6:14 AM Rrhain has not replied

rogerw1
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 87 (273762)
12-29-2005 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Rrhain
12-29-2005 6:36 AM


Biological Anthropology: An Introductory Reader (Paperback)
by Michael Alan Park, Michael Park
Editorial Reviews
Book Description
This supplementary reader offers both historical and contemporary articles that demonstrate the significant contributions made by biological anthropology.
With nearly a third of the selections focusing on living populations, the 42 articles cover the entire range of bioanthropological studies: evolution, nonhuman primates, human paleontology, and modern human groups.
About the Author
Michael Alan Park (Ph.D. Indiana, 1979) is a professor of anthropology at Central Connecticut State University, where he has been on the faculty since 1973, teaching courses in general anthropology, human evolution, biocultural diversity, human ecology, forensic anthropology, and the evolution of human behavior.
His interests focus on the application of evolutionary theory to the story of human evolution and on the quality of science education and the public perception and understanding of scientific matters.
He is the author or co-author of four current texts in anthropology as well as technical and popular articles

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Rrhain, posted 12-29-2005 6:36 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Nuggin, posted 12-29-2005 10:13 AM rogerw1 has replied
 Message 75 by Rrhain, posted 12-29-2005 9:12 PM rogerw1 has replied

rogerw1
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 87 (274090)
12-30-2005 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Nuggin
12-29-2005 10:13 AM


Re: Central?
I am going to Sacramento State. The first edition published in 98. Mine is the 4th edition 2004

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Nuggin, posted 12-29-2005 10:13 AM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
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rogerw1
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 87 (274091)
12-30-2005 5:08 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by nator
12-29-2005 8:45 AM


Re: What is biology class for?
I think you replied to the wrong person . this has nothing to do with any of my posts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by nator, posted 12-29-2005 8:45 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
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rogerw1
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 87 (274093)
12-30-2005 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Rrhain
12-29-2005 9:12 PM


I just sold my book on amazon. I will go though my papers and give you some quotes as soon I can . I havent had much free time as of late .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Rrhain, posted 12-29-2005 9:12 PM Rrhain has not replied

rogerw1
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 87 (274127)
12-30-2005 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Rrhain
12-29-2005 9:12 PM


The claim that creationism is a science rests above all on the plausibility of the biblical flood
by Stephen Jay Gould
G.K.CHESTERTON once mused over Noah's dinnertime conversations during those long nights on a vast and tempestuous sea:
And Noah he often said to his wife
when he sat down to dine,
"I don't care where the water goes if
it doesn't get into the wine."
Noah's insouciance has not been matched by defenders of his famous flood. For centuries, fundamentalists have tried very hard to find a place for the subsiding torrents.
They have struggled even more valiantly to devise a source for all that water. Our modern oceans, extensive as they are, will not override Mt. Everest. One seventeenth-century searcher said: "I can as soon believe that a man would be drowned in his own spittle as that the world should be deluged by the water in it."
With the advent of creationism, a solution to this old dilemma has been put forward.
In The Genesis Flood (1961), the founding document of the creationist movement, John Whitcomb and Henry Morris seek guidance from Genesis 1:6-7, which states that God created the firmament and then slid it into place amidst the waters, thus dividing "the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so." The waters under the firmament include seas and interior fluid that may rise in volcanic eruptions. But what are the waters above the firmament? Whitcomb and Morris reason that Moses cannot refer here to transient rain clouds, because he also tells us (Genesis 2:5) that "the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth." The authors therefore imagine that the earth, in those palmy days, was surrounded by a gigantic canopy of water vapor (which, being invisible, did not obscure the light of Genesis 1:3).
"These upper waters," Whitcomb and Morris write, "were therefore placed in that position by divine creativity, not by the normal processes of the hydrological cycle of the present day." Upwelling from the depths together with the liquefaction, puncturing, and descent of the celestial canopy produced more than enough water for Noah's worldwide flood.
Fanciful solutions often generate a cascade of additional difficulties. In this case, Morris, a hydraulic engineer by training, and Whitcomb invoke a divine assist to gather the waters into their canopy, but then can't find a natural way to get them down. So they invoke a miracle: God put the water there in the first place; let him then release it.
The simple fact of the matter is that one cannot have any kind of a Genesis Flood without acknowledging the presence of supernatural elements....
It is obvious that the opening of the "windows of heaven" in order to allow "the waters which were above the firmament" to fall upon the earth, and the breaking up of "all the fountains of the great deep" were supernatural acts of God.
Since we usually define science, at least in part, as a system of explanation that relies upon invariant natural laws, this charmingly direct invocation of miracles (suspensions of natural law) would seem to negate the central claims of the modern creationist movement --
by Stephen Jay Gould
Science as a way of Knowing
"A fundamental difference between religious and scientific thought is that the received beliefs in religion are ultimately based on revelation or pronouncements, usually by some long-dead prophet or priest. These revelations or pronouncements become the dogma of faith. .
In contrast, the statements of science are derived ultimately from the data and experiment, and from the manipulation of these data according to logical and often mathematical procedures."
by john a. moore
I will post more later

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Rrhain, posted 12-29-2005 9:12 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
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