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Author Topic:   the phylogeographic challenge to creationism
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5116 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 14 of 298 (262585)
11-22-2005 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Brad McFall
11-22-2005 9:44 PM


Re: Divergence
Brad McFall writes:
Niels Eldredge used the word "break". He said evolution has no breaks.
After thinking about this I thought this morning that in truth these evos had not thought about the process hard enough. I can write a sentence next which might be a true "law of nature." If it is then it would enable one to show determinant breaks.
Is it possible you (or Eldredge) meant "brakes?"
If not, can you explain "breaks?"
... I ask, aware from my lurking that I tread into murky waters...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Brad McFall, posted 11-22-2005 9:44 PM Brad McFall has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Brad McFall, posted 11-27-2005 8:05 PM Belfry has not replied

  
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5116 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 64 of 298 (263624)
11-27-2005 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Faith
11-27-2005 8:31 PM


Re: A harder easy question
Faith writes:
I guess I'd agree, if we had arrived at a good definition of the unique features of Catness and Dogness and a convincing combination could be demonstrated. But the two species don't go back to a common ancestor according to evolutionism in any case.
False. Aside from your very poor use of the term, "species" (if you're going to use a definition that's entirely different from any common biological definition, you might as well just use "kinds"), canines and felines do share common ancestry according to evolutionary biology.
Faith writes:
It is only by eliminating other genetic possibilities that you get the new "species" and this being the case variation or "evolution" beyond the given genetic potentials of the original ancestral species is impossible.
This assumes that genetic diversity can only be lost, not gained. Thanks to mechanisms like recombination and mutation, diversity within a founder population tends to increase in the absence of new bottlenecks. If this species proves successful and thrives long enough, it will reach a point where it develops enough genetic diversity within the population so that another divergence is possible under the right circumstances, within the genetic potential of that second species, which is now the ancestor. Repeat this process ad nauseum, and the result of the thousandth iteration may be very different from the 1st species.
Again, I think your improper usage of "species" is really confusing things here.
Faith writes:
Seems to me the more that is known about genetic variability the clearer this pattern is, that the reduction of variability corresponds with phenotypic change, and there has to be a natural limit to this process.
It may seem that way to you, but it doesn't seem that way to biologists, and you haven't provided any compelling support for your gut feeling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Faith, posted 11-27-2005 8:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Faith, posted 11-27-2005 10:21 PM Belfry has replied

  
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5116 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 88 of 298 (263680)
11-28-2005 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Faith
11-27-2005 10:21 PM


Re: A harder easy question
Faith writes:
Recombination adds nothing new, it merely reverses the bottlenecking/isolating/natural-selecting/genepool-reducing trend and reunites a previously split off part of the population with another part or with the ancestral population.
I was referring to genetic recombination, including "crossing over" of chromosomes, which occurs through meiosis in sexual reproduction, or through conjugation and transduction in bacteria.
You've made a lot of positive assertions in this thread, and I think it's time that you backed them up, especially since you're now at the point of telling people that they "don't get it."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Faith, posted 11-27-2005 10:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
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