How determined are you?

Take a course in Caos theory and you will be a changed man!!!!! heh, no pun intended. ;D
It seems the universe is both deterministic and caotic.
Reality it seems does not want to be pigeon holed or probed to deeply. The most one can say about determinism is that intial conditions can never be repeated. So the point is sort of moot? maybe?.
Just ask any pool player or bowler.
I got into a argument sometime ago with some bright fellow on EVC about "what is close enough" When does Schrodinger equations and knowing the wave function down to the bazillionth decimal place not close enough.???? My answer was that over time regardless of the descripency the outcome is different. Nothing can be said to be 100 percent deterministic if even the most infintesimal probability of change is present.
Who knows though maybe close does count in other things besides horseshoes and hand granades. Peace be with you. **edit my horrible mispelling of SchrodingerThis message has been edited by 1.61803, 11-01-2005 05:57 PM

Hi nwr. How about the claim that knowing the future does not defeat freewill. Kinda like I know I am going to type this next sentence.
But I still have the choice in what I type.
According to some beliefs, I have heard, time references such as the past, or present, or future are human constructs that are necessary for humans to communicate and operate in a universe rooted in 4 dimentions.
BUT............(here it comes..so dont roll your eyes!)
If a omnipotent entity exist....lets call it...ummm...God.
Then why couldnt such a entity not be omniscient of all and also
able to allow for choices to be made. Knowing the choice made does not mean the chooser had no choice. To God everything just is, no time no past..no future. Or not.

To many theologians God's fore knowlege is not just predictive but infalliable. A universe where God can be wrong is impossible therefore moot. By choosing a true propostion and a "corresponding" state of being known by God does not infringe on freewill. God may however decide to keep things interesting by allowing for incorrect choices. Who's to say?
Some might say that the choices we make determine God's past
predictions about the choices and the paradox of retroactive causation is avoided. Or not. It scrambles the brain IMO

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

Hi Chioptera,
I know this is going to sound bizzare and ridiculous, but since when has that ever stopped me. Bell's theorem .....quantum entanglement....ok. the electron knows when the other electron's spin is changed and alter's it's spin.
The question of how can it "know" and experiments attempting to gain knowlege of the observation and corresponding change (retro active even) in the electron only continues to baffle.But how about the theory that every thing in the universe is just one stuff. I know monadism..blah blah..but if one where to think about the universe and reality as one thing and that every piece of that thing is a complete copy of the whole then nothing is separate. The particle can be 20K light years away and it does not matter. The distance does not matter. It is always a part of its paired electron.
Very Hindu sounding but interesting.So the concept of the particle gaining knowlege faster than c is a illusion. It is like another angle or view of the electrons making changes in they're velocity or position but the view or observation made is simply like another camera view of the one thing.
Ok I admit its a silly concept. But I kind like the thought of everything being somehow connected not only by being in the same universe but actually being a complete part of a whole.
Ok you all can now return to your regularly scheduled discussion.
Peace out.

Greetings my trogloditic smart friend.
Two little questions .
Is the wavefunction "fully" deterministic? Is Scrodinger's formula
100 percent accurate or 99.99 to the trillionth decimal place?