Hyper evolution in the bible

Remember that they mocked Noah, and did not believe it. Why not hire who was available? God was the One who closed the ark door. If it was left up to Noah, he might have allowed some old employees to get in.

Well, you're battin' a thousand. You haven't got one Bible reference right yet:

quote:

---

Gen 11:18 And Peleg lived thirty years, and begot Reu:
Gen 11:19 And Peleg lived after he begot Reu two hundred and nine years, and begot sons and daughters.

---

Okay, let's have a look:

quote:

---

Gen 11:20 And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begot Serug:
Gen 11:21 And Reu lived after he begot Serug two hundred and seven years, and begot sons and daughters.

---

quote:

---

Gen 11:22 And Serug lived thirty years, and begot Nahor:
Gen 11:23 And Serug lived after he begot Nahor two hundred years, and begot sons and daughters.

---

quote:

---

Gen 11:24 And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begot Terah:
Gen 11:25 And Nahor lived after he begot Terah a hundred and nineteen years, and begot sons and daughters.

---

Anyway, you're off by less than 100%.

---

People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.

Thanks for pointing out the mistake. I meant of course 230, which was a little over twice the present age of some folks lives. But as you looked it up, it was only 209 years. And we see the decline after this, fairly quickly leveling out to present ages.
So, it is quite interesting, as many people have wondered about this lifespan thing!

Without the addition to the physical of the spiritual, or merge, we would not be able to live forever, it is impossible.I like this merge thing you've got, tell me about it please?

Well, it goes kinda like this. A long time ago, God seperated the physical from the spiritual world, or universe. This, I refer to as the split. Before that it was together, I have refered to as the merged universe, or world. It isn't written in stone, and polished yet. But from what I can so far understand in the bible, a merged world was required for the flood, and Adam and Eve's garden, and the long lifespans, etc. Also, it is required for the coming eternity, and new heavens and earth.
That leaves us now, in a physical only universe, and world, until such a time as it is again merged. When did this happen? My bet so far id about a century after the flood, and the merge comes at the end of the millenium, with the revealed eternal new heavens.In this merged universe, spiritual, and physical, there is no decay process, leading to death any more, and the sun will never burn out etc. The light in this coming universe is unlike our present physical universe light as well, and, being spiritual, not limited in time and space, and can span the not only physical universe we now see, but the entire merged universe, we cannot see much of now! This would be why the light reached Adam in the early earth, without taking billions of years to reach here.
It is quite a trip! But thats a short version.

i mean, long-dead thread that's basically your personal soapbox for your crackpot ideas, and a newbie who bumps it asking to know more? kinda suspicious. prove it. arguments from incredulity don't work. period. not even with the bible. there's a lot of incredible stuff that happens, and as i've pointed out, LONG after your separation. prove it. prove it. we've shown that long lifes happen in the bible after your split.apply this logic to the rest your post. it's not even worth my time to go through it and "prove it" for every unsupported and wild assertion that just plain reaks of biblical ignorance.

---

אָרַח

The evo assumption, without a shred of evidence, is that all things have essentially remained the same, uniformatarianism.The Bible strongly suggests in a number of places that this is incorrect, that the universe has undergone major fundamental shifts, even in what men have considered it's basic principles.Of course, it could be the real basic principles have remained the same, that what we experience is one potential for the multi-verse, but whatever the case may be, the entering in of death changed reality, and I think the separation concept you have is perfectly valid, and consistent with what we know about the world via physics.

The Bible does suggest man's lifespans began to be shortened with a withdrawal of something from the Spirit of God in the earth possibly since God says "My Spirit will not always strive with man."Simple has a point.You could argue that there was no change except God's decree, but it does make sense that there would be a physical or real change made as well, and that some of the life of God's Spirit would be withdrawn.

Depending upon exactly what you mean by 'uniformitarianism' I'm not sure I agree with your first statement. Science accepts that the Earth, even the universe, has had some pretty major changes. According to pretty standard cosmology, it used to be all plasma. That it no longer is plasma, is a fairly large change.

quote:

---

The Bible strongly suggests in a number of places that this is incorrect, that the universe has undergone major fundamental shifts, even in what men have considered it's basic principles.

---

That's nice, randman, but where is the evidence? Major shifts in basic principles ought to leave a mark.

---

No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

That depends on the type of major shift. Also, who says there are no "marks".Science views the data under certain assumptions, such as a static past, a physical world similar to what we see now, similar processes, etc,...Sure, going back science claims some major shifts, but not since man has been around.Personally, I think some work in general relativity and quantum physics can be useful. For example, when we see a photon move from acting like a wave/particle in a superpositional state to acting more in a uni-position particle, we would not observe any "marks" as it is in one state or the other.We can only see that it can exist in a different form by examining both states, by seeing it has changed.That to my mind tells us something fundamental about the property and state of physical existence. There is a hidden potential, not seen, which can manifest in different physical forms.Maybe the universe as a whole is like that as well.

god then limits human lifespan to 120 years. simple, btw, is misreading this verse too.of course, after that decree, the lifespans go on in the 200-year range. in fact, he says the "split" happened during peleg's lifetime, but the next two generations of peleg's sons STILL live longer than normal. at least one is 200+. the division of the world that verse refers to is the tower of babel, not his merged world. but that's not exactly what he's arguing. god is continually less and less present as biblical chronology goes on. at no point is there a SUDDEN shift in god's presence, other than possibly the exile. and god certainly does not need a merged world to act.if we want to look at actual divisions, look at the creation event. heavne divides the water -- and is structurally separate from earth. at no point are they ever one and the same, not even in revelation.

---

אָרַח

quote:

---

Also, who says there are no "marks".

---

Not I. But I did ask for evidence of some, should you feel they are there.

quote:

---

Science views the data under certain assumptions, such as a static past, a physical world similar to what we see now, similar processes, etc,...

---

Until evidence to the contrary comes forth, sure. Is that not reasonable?

quote:

---

Maybe the universe as a whole is like that as well.

---

Maybe. Maybe-not. Where is the evidence? Without it, all you have is a wish.

---

No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

a strawman, and a bad one. the first word of the definition of evolution is "change." the evo assumption is change. religion in general as been very conservative, and against changes itself. the bible does not indicate drastic change in physical laws or god's rules, just in the conditions of people. being kicked out of eden is a sudden change. the confusion of babel is a sudden change. the exodus is a relatively sudden change. the exile is a sudden change -- but never does god redefine the physical universe.the closest we have is in genesis 6. god sets a limit on human lifespan, and uncreates and recreates the earth. humans are also now allowed to eat meat, too. but that's really about it.it never says that the world was a spiritual place and now it's not. there's lots of spiritual stuff going on in the nt. simple is forced to support his idea with an ad-hoc explanation of localized spiritual intervention. it doesn't hold up.

---

אָרַח

Well, evidence has begun to come forth. Relativity shows us that the universe is not a thing passing through time, but that time is a function within the universe. Maybe time doesn't really exist in an absolute sense, but that's a little off-topic.Let me illustrate it this way. The earth is not a ball sitting in the universe passing through time. The earth is more accurately seen as a streak in space-time. Let's call this a pole.GR then gives us a picture of the earth more like a pole.Now, could the pole be affected as a whole, say, vibrated so that it moves from end to end? If that occurs, we would see the past, present, and future changing.Or, let's look at the universe from the photon's perspective. The perspective of measuring from any point in the universe is just as valid as measureing from our vantage point. According to GR, from the vantage point of measuring theoritically from the photon's perspective, no time exists due to a photon travelling at the speed of light, thus everything is all present, and due to length contraction, there would be no space either. So from this perspective, we don't see time and space at all. They exist as information only, which brings us to QM in my view.Most physicists believe that GR and QM have not been harmonized, and that may be true, but QM does seem to suggest that information is fundamental (information/design is what exists), and that physical form is derivative of the information energy/design.QM also contains theories concerning potential causal effects backwards in time, just as I would predict from GR.So the question is whether these ideas in physics are correct or not, and assuming they are since they are not recent ideas but have been tested, I would say there is considerable evidence for the things I am talking about, such as a non-static past.

change occurs over time. remove time as something we move through, change becomes irrelevant.

---

אָרַח