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Discussion of the 3 thermodynamic laws

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Author Topic:   Discussion of the 3 thermodynamic laws
portmaster1000
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Message 1 of 49 (131917)
08-09-2004 1:33 PM

Simplified Definitions
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1st Law: Energy is Conserved (You cannot win)
2nd Law: Entropy Always Increases (You cannot break even)
3rd Law: No Absolute Zero (You cannot get out of the game)
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I see the 2nd law mentioned alot on these forums.
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I'm wondering if we can get a discussion going about how these laws are used in science. Maybe get some good examples of each one. What are the limitations of the laws?
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I think a general informational thread would be education to all.
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thanx
PM1K
Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Loudmouth, posted 08-09-2004 2:04 PM portmaster1000 has replied
 Message 14 by happy_atheist, posted 08-21-2004 12:40 PM portmaster1000 has replied
 Message 15 by Brad McFall, posted 08-22-2004 9:53 AM portmaster1000 has not replied
  
portmaster1000
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Message 5 of 49 (131991)
08-09-2004 4:10 PM 		Reply to: Message 3 by Loudmouth
08-09-2004 2:04 PM

First and Third?
Cool link. Sunlight does represent a massive amount of energy being dumped on the system that is Earth.
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How do all the laws tie together?
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Any way to extend your sunlight to the Earth example to bring in examples of 1 and 3?
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thanx
PM1K
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Loudmouth, posted 08-09-2004 2:04 PM Loudmouth has replied
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portmaster1000
Inactive Member

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Message 9 of 49 (133048)
08-11-2004 10:51 PM 		Reply to: Message 8 by Loudmouth
08-09-2004 5:07 PM

Absolute Zero
So, the third law is basically saying that you can never remove ALL heat from a system? Something like you can never reach zero if you start at 1 and keep dividing by 2, ie, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8,...?
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thanx
PM1K
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Loudmouth, posted 08-09-2004 5:07 PM Loudmouth has replied
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portmaster1000
Inactive Member

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Message 16 of 49 (137315)
08-27-2004 9:22 AM 		Reply to: Message 14 by happy_atheist
08-21-2004 12:40 PM

Minimum number of particles?
happy_atheist writes:
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The reason why it (thermodynamics) is so deterministic is because it uses a huge number of particles (much more than a billion). The average behaviour then becomes very very predictable. The less particles that are involved, the more likely it is that you will observe something contrary to the laws of thermodynamics
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What's the minimum number of particles for thermodynamics to 'work'? Also, are you saying that the smaller number of particles in a system the more likely you can do "something contrary to the laws"?
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thanx
PM1K
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PS: When you say 'particle', to what object are you refering?
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 Message 14 by happy_atheist, posted 08-21-2004 12:40 PM happy_atheist has not replied
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 Message 18 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-27-2004 2:21 PM portmaster1000 has not replied
  
portmaster1000
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Message 21 of 49 (137440)
08-27-2004 4:41 PM 		Reply to: Message 19 by Loudmouth
08-27-2004 2:39 PM

Nice example
Loudmouth writes:
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As a child using child-like logic, you thought that if someone opened up all of the refridgerators world wide that the temperature would drop. However, the truth of the matter is that given enough open refridgerators the global temperature would actually increase in keeping with the thermodynamic laws.
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I like it! I like it alot!
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Quick questions - Does the amount of waste heat increase as more and more electronic devices are being used? Will this heat become a potential problem at some point in the future?
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Just wondering
PM1K
This message is a reply to:
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